Syagrus insignis vs S. weddelliana
Between 1995 and 2010 the species Lytocaryum insigne (now again Syagrus insignis) was treated as synonym for the "correct" term Lytocaryum weddellianum (now Syagrus weddelliana). In this thread I am trying to document the differences between these two species during their first years since germination.
It would be very nice if also other members could contribute their photos which show the characteristic differences between these two species or their similarities when they have pinnate leaves.
My first sketch shows the typical habit of adult trees. I regret that I don’t have my own photos which I could post here. The next photos document that it can be impossible to distinguish their seeds: Seeds of S. insignis may be smaller or bigger or of the same size.
The other photos document the differences between the seedlings, beginning with photos of half a year old juvenile plants. All Syagrus weddelliana germinated in April 2013, all Syagrus insignis in February and March 2014
Here the sketches: Actually S. insignis (here from Espírito Santo) is much taller than S. weddelliana (here Rio de Janeiro) and its trunk is also much thicker.
Two seeds looking totally alike.
All seeds of S. insignis which germinated in 2014 were smaller than the average of L. weddelliana.
And here three seeds of actually germinated palms.
Both species in the same age: (1) half a year.
Both species in the same age: (2) 9 to 11 months.
Both species in the same age: (3) 1 year.
Both species in the same age: (4) 1 year and a half old.
S. weddelliana together with S. insignis. Both palms have almost the same number of leaves, although S. weddelliana is about 10 months older
S. weddelliana together with S. insignis. Both palms have almost the same number of leaves, although S. weddelliana is about 10 months older
S. weddelliana together with S. insignis. Both palms have almost the same number of leaves, although S. weddelliana is about 10 months older
An update, documenting the contrast between the two palm species.
Growth of stem compared: L insigne N°1401, 2.5 years old, 11th leaf, stem base 32 mm diameter. L weddellianum N°1301, 3.3 years old, 15th leaf, stem base 24 mm diameter.
These two palms were merged together into only one species Lytocaryum weddellianum officially for 15 years from 1995 to 2010.
As the pot of the biggest L insigne N°1401 was getting too tight I had too repot it from a 14.8x17.4 cm pot to a stronger 18x18 cm pot, using again my special soil mix for palms growing on rocky slopes. Pic #1 and #2 show the healthy and strong roots, pic #3 the new home of the palm, pic #4 the components of the mixture and #5 the mixed soil, pic #6 the added mix still dry and #7 watered with water from an Odenwald fountain, and pic #8 the happy palm with its 10th leaf becoming pinnate. #1 & 2: Healthy roots. Photo & notations by Research Work Editor palMeir.
As the pot of the biggest L insigne N°1401 was getting too tight I had too repot it from a 14.8x17.4 cm pot to a stronger 18x18 cm pot, using again my special soil mix for palms growing on rocky slopes. Pic #1 and #2 show the healthy and strong roots, pic #3 the new home of the palm, pic #4 the components of the mixture and #5 the mixed soil, pic #6 the added mix still dry and #7 watered with water from an Odenwald fountain, and pic #8 the happy palm with its 10th leaf becoming pinnate. #1 & 2: Healthy roots. Photo & notations by Research Work Editor palMeir.
L weddellianum 1240 days old; size of pots Ø14.8 cm H17.4 cm. Photo & notations by Research Work Editor Pal Meir.
After studying the natural habitat of Syagrus insignis I saw that this species is only growing on steep rocky slopes. This means it needs very quick drainage and (when adult) it does not need any humus or other organic matter at all.
After studying the natural habitat of Syagrus insignis I saw that this species is only growing on steep rocky slopes. This means it needs very quick drainage and (when adult) it does not need any humus or other organic matter at all
So I used in 2014 for my ten seedlings from the beginning a totally different soil mix, with the result that all 10 plants are thriving very healthily.
even now after more than one and a half year (the last photo still all 10 together.).
A short list counting off most conditions which are essential for both S. insignis and S. weddelliana and which can also explain why both species don’t grow side by side together in their habitats.
Even if the eophylls (first leaves) of both species are lanceolate they are quite different in size and texture.
In case of S. insignis the eophylls are always undivided lanceolate and leather like.
S. weddelliana also undivided and paper like or already pinnate. In my batch from 2002 59/63 = 94% had entire first leaves.
The first pair of photos shows the palms #1 and #3 which I think might be representative for L. insigne (#1) and L. weddellianum (#3), showing the characteristic patterns of old leaf sheaths, the rings on the stem, and the thickness of the trunk for each species. Thanks to member @Mohsen, who took a couple of very informative photos of Lytocaryum palms in RBG Sydney this month (Nov. 2015; cf. also his thread on PT for further photos), I have the opportunity to illustrate the problem in distinguishing the two species L. insigne and L. weddellianum (rsp. Syagrus insignis and S. weddelliana) when they are adult palms.
The second pair of photos shows the palm #1 (supposed L. insigne) in contrast to another palm #2, which has a trunk more slender than that of #1, but much thicker than that of #3. This palm seems to have characteristics of both species, so it is hard to decide if this is L. weddellianum growing exposed to more direct sun, or a more slender L. insigne, or a hybrid (???) between the two species. Thanks to member @Mohsen, who took a couple of very informative photos of Lytocaryum palms in RBG Sydney this month (Nov. 2015; cf. also his thread on PT for further photos), I have the opportunity to illustrate the problem in distinguishing the two species L. insigne and L. weddellianum (rsp. Syagrus insignis and S. weddelliana) when they are adult palms.
The third photo combination shows the trunks of these three palms. If the diameter of #1 is 100%, then the trunk of #2 would be ca. 70% and of #3 only 40% Thanks to member @Mohsen, who took a couple of very informative photos of Lytocaryum palms in RBG Sydney this month (Nov. 2015; cf. also his thread on PT for further photos), I have the opportunity to illustrate the problem in distinguishing the two species L. insigne and L. weddellianum (rsp. Syagrus insignis and S. weddelliana) when they are adult palms.
The last photo combination shows the trunks of these three palms. If the diameter of #1 is 100%, then the trunk of #2 would be ca. 70% and of #3 only 40% Thanks to member @Mohsen, who took a couple of very informative photos of Lytocaryum palms in RBG Sydney this month (Nov. 2015; cf. also his thread on PT for further photos), I have the opportunity to illustrate the problem in distinguishing the two species L. insigne and L. weddellianum (rsp. Syagrus insignis and S. weddelliana) when they are adult palms.
New leaves and leaf sheaths — hairy and woolly Syagrus insignis vs smooth Syagrus weddelliana (only with tiny scales).
Also the size of the seeds is confusing: #1 "Lytocaryum weddellianum" RPS 2013 > palms N°1301 ff. #2 "Lytocaryum insigne" RPS 2014 > seedlings N°1401 – 1410 #3 "Lytocaryum weddellianum" RPS 2013 > palms N°1301 ff. #4 "Lytocaryum insigne" RPS 2011 > seedlings N°1101 – 1103 (all †).
Comparison of growth of exactly two years old palms: The inner clay pot of Syagrus weddelliana has a diameter of 12 cm, the plastic pot of S. insignis 14.8 cm.
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
Literature discussing the genus Lytocaryum (Noblick & Lorezi 2010) and its transfer to Syagrus (Noblick & Meerow 2015).
