Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by annafl, Jul 16, 2013.
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Ray, I am trying to understand what you are getting at. I am using Mrs Iceton as a example here. Photos appear in Dr Browns (1995) book using Mrs Iceton as the name. Are you stating we are now to go back and use Imperiallis only? I would think Mrs Iceton is now a accepted name for Imperiallis and part of the history of this cultivar . Then will that make the yellow one Yellow Imperiallis? Scott
If the name appears in one of Dr. Brown's books i.e. Ms. Iceton, it's already an accepted name. Imperialis is also an accepted name from an old list or catalogue. Who knows which one came first but both are accepted. The list I added in the other link was only to provide a historical cross reference between names Dr. Brown used in his first book with his later book. Bob Alonzo, Johnny Shelton and others were also able to cross reference names between Dr. Brown's books and many of those listed in the Christian papers and/or Reasoner's and Dreer catalogues. My only intention in providing that list was to give people a little backround on a plant they may have growing in their garden. I know some people here don't care about names but most do. Accepted, historical names should be cross referenced on the Wiki site and a name someone added much later to that same cultivar should be removed. What good is a database if every name we give an already established cultivar gets recorded and considered valid. Where does it stop? When you look up Imperialis, it should refer you to Ms. Iceton and viceversa. With newer varieties and seedlings, pick one or two names and stick to them.
Now I understand. Thanks again Ray! This week I have placed Aluminum Impress-O-Tags on my Crotons trying to give them the correct names. Mrs Iceton will get 2 name tags.
Is there such a thing as Reedi or is this a misspelling of Rheedi?
Is there such a thing as Delaruye or is it Delarue or is it different than Juliette Delarue?
Should there be a separate entry for Sturrock's pink veitchii or should it stay lumped together with veitchii. My impression is that this is a different cultivar altogether. Although this presents a problem in that I can't transfer photos from one name to the other. I don't know if Dean can. We'd have to get new photos.
Joann Roof-Toby Rose
Veitchii-Allan and Robertico Heredia
Pride of Winterhaven-Allan
Thomas Edison-David King
It's spelled Rheedii.
I'm 90% certain it's Delarue.
There are 4 distinct Veitchii:
Porter's Pink Veitchii
Sturrock's Pink Veitchii
Albicans = White Veitchii
By the way, I believe Judy Glock and Jeff Searle agreed that "Hot Tub Pink" is really Christmas. Hopefully, they'll chime in and confirm. If so, the Hot Tube Pink reference should disappear.
Oh, ok Ray. I'd like to hear from Judy and Jeff before I bring it up to Dean. Thanks.
Yellow Quill-Keith Hanks
John Halgrim Jr.-Keith Hanks
Seminole Queen-Keith Hanks
Cornelius Halgrim-Keith Hanks
Skeet Jones-Keith Hanks
White Tapestry-Keith Hanks
Helen Coppinger-Marie Nock
Florida Sunset-Keith Hanks
Dr. Frank Brown-Rob
Haven't been active on the site for some time now, but this is a huge undertaking........ keep up the excellent work!
Here's a Michelangelo growing in part sun and very bright light
Allan, I hope you'll start posting again. I've missed pictures of your wonderful croton finds and posts of your growing collection.
Allan, I've loved going back through the old forum photos and seeing your plants and your finds. Please stay with us and keep posting!
I'll ask again since I didn't get a response: Should we have a different entry for Sturrock's Pink Veitchii, and if we do, I don't think I can transfer the old photos, so we'll need new ones. Can you all do that?
Today's last entries:
Confetti-Rob Van der
Carmen Christian-Ron Kiefert
Lord Belhaven-Ron Kiefert
Philip Geduldig-Phil Stager
Coral Showers- Ron Keifert
Columbia-Rob Van der and Ron Keifert
Freckles-Ron Kiefert and Judy Glock
Von Oosterezeii-Ray Hernandez
Colonel Bob Bullock-Judy Glock
Van Houtii-Toby Rose
Amabile-Allan Ragobar **** please check this one. Beautiful plant, but not sure about id?
Thanks to all who posted photos of plants! Ana
This looks like the White/Yellow form of Amabile.
The photo of "America" from me is actually "Ernestine Delarue". I was more confused than usual when the America ID was made.
I believe Phil has a nice specimen of the real "America".
Thanks Marie, I'll make a note of that.
Thanks Ray, I'll transfer it.
Hey its Allan! Wow Ana - your really getting this forum cranking!
Colonel Bob Bullock-Ron Kiefert
White Eburneum, Andrew-Rick Leitner
Her Highness-Ron Kiefert
The Moth-Ron Kiefert
Queen of Siam-Phil Stager
General MacArthur-Ron Kiefert
Blotched Williams Jennings Bryan-Toby Rose
Nancy Reagan-Randy Weisner
Ernestine Delarue-Ray Hernandez
Revelation-Keith Hanks, Randy Weisner, Phil Stager
I won't be posting for the next few days. Please keep posting your photos and suggestions, as I will catch up when I get back! Ana
Porter's Pink Veitchii and Sturrock's are both good valid names. I think the last time Judy and I spoke, we agreed that Hot Tub Pink and Christmas are the same plants. Therefore, Christmas would be the correct name. Judy?
Christmas is OK with me!
I just happened to look up Cornelius, the two pictures that Phil submitted, although are very pretty but not what I learned as Cornelius. Unless the lighting is playing tricks but they look like two different plants. I have Cornelius that originally came out of Robert Halgrims yard and matches up with Marie's plant. Anyone else.......?
Both Keith's and my Cornelius Halgrim came from cuttings off a plant at Cookie Graf's. I know the Glocks have an air layer off mine, and I should be able to bring a nice air layer to the next gathering.
Some of the confusion is because one of Phil's pictures of Cornelius Halgrim is posted under Cornelius.
Thanks, Marie. glad that one is sorted out. Reminds me of my high school trigonometry teacher who had the bad habit of adding 2 + 2, thinking 4, saying 3 and writing down 5.
my entry, the Karen Edge ---credit Harold Lee
Very nice Perry.
My Cornelius was an airlayer from Judy's plant. Went in the ground in April and really took off. I really like this one.
Anyway looks like Phil's plant to me.
Beautiful plant Jerry. I don't think I've seen that one.
Well, were obviously talking about two distinct plants. Now's the time when Robert Halgrim or possibly Bob Alonzo should jump in.
Jeff - we're talking about two different plants here:
1. Cornelius - as in the pic above. I got my Cornelius back in 2001 at a Croton Society meeting at the Edison Estate.
2. Cornelius Halgrim - a fairly large interrupted leaf variety. I got mine from Cookie Graf as described elsewhere
The confusion comes from a error in posting pic of Cornelius Halgrim under the title of Cornelius. The similarity of the names does not help either. It's late at night so will try and post pics of each tomorrow.
onward through the fog
Hi, I'm back!
Changed Cornelius Halgrim to its correct spot. Thanks for noticing and letting me know.
Is Randy's photo under Ann Rutherford correct?
Is the other photo under Dreer 3 correct? Where does it belong?
Ray's photo of Mother and daughter posted a couple of days ago- it looks like Starlight too? Is it correct?
I changed Eburneum to White and Pink Eburneums. Please tell me how it should be done.
I will ask Dean to delete Hot Tub Pink and change entry to Christmas
I will make entry for Sturrock's Pink Veitchii and transfer photos
Please keep checking things as I do them and alert me to anything that needs to be changed
This morning's entries:
Dreer 3-Judy Glock
C.I. Craigin-Ron Kiefert
Dayspring (4) Robertico in Costa Rica
Norma Jean-Andy Finlayson
Rainbow Starlight-Ray Hernandez
Cutler's Giant-Ray Hernandez
Ann Rutherford-Ron Kiefert
Harvest Moon-Ray Hernandez
White Bravo-David King
Ram's Horn-David King
Mrs. C.O. Liller-Ray Hernandez
Mother and Daughter has an interrupted leaf (may not be visible in the photo).
Rainbow Starlite (Mrs. C.O. Liller) is not an interrupted leaf.
Don't forget to pick up the photo of cultivar Harvest Moon posted in a seperate thread.
Harvest Moon was one of the first I did. Look under its heading.
Should I post the mother daughter although the interrupted leaf may not be clearly visible or do you want to take another more representative photo? To me it looks so much like Rainbow Starlight I can't tell much difference. Let me know. Thanks. Ana
You're right, the photo should be better. I'll take another photo of M&D. Delete the one I sent previously.
I'm referring to the Wiki page. If you go to it and look under Cornelius, you will see two pic's of a pink looking croton and two pic's from Marie that have red leaves. These are pic's of two very distinct looking plants. Mine ( the red leaf plant) came from Robert Halgrim's yard through Bob many years ago after he had just recently passed away. So my question is, which is the real plant? We need some help from Bob Alonzo on this one I think.
Jonathan Schwartz, a sport from Mother & Daughter and Mother & Daughter in deep shade.
Jeff - I see what you're getting at. Here's some pics taken today of Cornelius - one's an air layer potted up about two weeks ago, others are of two different plants but from the original I got back in 2001. I cannot get too excited about color shade variations since much may depend upon growing conditions especially light, lighting conditions when pics were taken, camera settings, etc. Now Jerry's is different since it shows a lot of blotching compared to the others. So if the blotching continues and can be transmitted to an air layer or two or more and is consistent, then we have a Blotched Cornelius(maybe...). At any rate, fit's one of my favorites.
Last ones for today:
Arrowhead-Photo by Ron Kiefert of Jeff Searle's plant
Old Legend- "
Jungle Queen "
General Marshall- "
Louis Dupuy- "
Wm. Jennings Bryan "
Geisha Girl "
Cameo-Photo by Randy Weisner
Sybil Griffin- Photo by Rob Van der of Judy Glock's plant
William Craig- "
Three Toes- "
Rapture-Photo by Ana Bowers of Keith Hanks's plant
Pitcarin-Photo by Jeff Searle
Pitcarin-Photo by Phil Stager
Robert Halgrim-Photo by Jeff Searle
Juliette Delarue-Photo by Jeff Searle
John Soar-Photo by Phil Stager
Very nice plant Phil,hopefully that new airlayer will make it to our October auction
I noted that we still needed the Earl of Derby in the Wiki. I acquired this one at a Searle sale. After reading the description I'm not sure on my plant. Does anyone have one?
"A trilobed-leaved form of the Disraeli type, with nearly the whole central portion of the leaf blade yellow, the margin and tips of the lobes a grassy green."
Jerry - I've got one that has leaves exactly like yours - but am not too sure of the name. Ray should be able to ID this one for us.
I'm referring to the Wiki page. If you go to it and look under Cornelius, you will see two pic's of a pink looking croton and two pic's from Marie that have red leaves. These are pic's of two very distinct looking plants. Mine ( the red leaf plant) came from Robert Halgrim's yard through Bob many years ago after he had just recently passed away. So my question is, which is the real plant? We need some help from Bob Alonzo on this one I think.[/QUOTE]
Jeff, it's the photo. Mine is a pink.
Separate names with a comma.