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Why wouldn't you let the lava gods burn your house down?

Discussion in 'INTERESTING, INSIGHTFUL, PROVOCATIVE, EDUCATIONAL' started by Stan, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    502
    I'm enlightened to others cultures...maybe to the extreme. BUT, I cant help but laugh when I read about that woman who vehemently says to others," let the towns homes burn down to please the lava god". How generous of her- lol.
    Ah,I shouldn't post this...but again TODAY I read about that situation.
     
  2. Jerry@TreeZoo

    Jerry@TreeZoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,628
    I watched the video of some of those community meetings they had in Pahoa about the advancing lava. It was really weird listening to some of those people. I would guess that many or most of the people who did not want to anger Madame Pele were at least nominal Christians, but they have adopted an interesting amalgam of the two different religions. Others just looked like burnt out old hippies who had partaken in a little too much of the weed.

    I am wondering if the electric company is in trouble with Madame Pele for taking some unusual steps to protect their utility poles. The city or county is in an unenviable position in trying to ameliorate conditions. They want to preserve infrastructure but cannot influence the flow of lava because #1, there is a good deal of native religious feeling on the matter and #2, if they change the direction of flow, everyone who is affected down-slope (Makai, right?), could rightfully sue them, claiming they would not have been affected by lava had it gone on it its natural flow.
     
  3. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    It is curious as to what people have choosen to believe in throughout the ages. You've had the sun god, the surf god, the god of thunder - and people have worshipped gold, natural wonders, and wooden statues. In fact, wooden gods were still big here not all that long ago. Worshipping lava and Pele is not that much different than giving yourself over to something bigger than you, that you have absolutely no control or influence over. It seems to be a basic ingrained compulsion of the human condition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  4. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    There are always two sides. (1) Thoughts and / or conversations prior to or (2) after the partaking of the Maui Wowie

    maui.jpg
     
  5. koki

    koki Active Member

    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    pine island, fl
    Most Hawaiians don't think about Christianity. There is however a strong identification with things that are authentically Hawaiian, and volcanoes is certainly one of those things. There is also an entitlement factor, which is probably the basis for anger that sometimes spills over. Add the public forum and you have the soapbox factor. All pretty normal when you think about it.
     
  6. Entitlement factor, DEFINITLY. The Hawaiians are entitled to race-based subsidized housing and race-based health care. No wonder Hawaii is a Democrat state, cuz the Dems coddle the freeloaders, and native Hawaiians want stuff for free, mostly land. But to be honest, this Pele lava monster bullshit, infects lowlife, fake Hawaiian, White trash too. There's no shortage of White, mainlander, FAKE Hawaiians, who on their own, speak pidgin, to look cooler than the natives. PATHETIC.
     
  7. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Why don't you and all the non-natives just leave. Oh and pay back in cash for the land you occupy that was misappropriated (i.e. stolen) from the natives. Have the US government leave as well but be sure to repay the natives for their unscrupulously acquired lands as well. Then you don't have to worry about them ripped off free loaders that trouble your mind.

    They were naked, disease free and living symbiotically in a paradise before the "white man" arrived enforcing their concept of what a society should be. Hmmm - and you think you are entitled to be angry ? Amazing ...
     
  8. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    If the "white man" hadn't arrived, the Japanese (or another conquering nationality) would be here instead - and "paradise" would still have been lost. And if the Japanese had conquered Hawaii first during WWII, then they would have raped and pillaged like they did throughout Asia.

    Unfortunately the "white man" wasn't/isn't the only homosapien that conquered lands and expanded empires. They all did - including the Polynesians. It has been happening since man stood on two legs.

    And the "Hawaiians" had been warring, slaughtering, and conquering between themselves (and the islands) for generations. King Kamehameha The Great finally conquered and united all the islands under his rule for the first real period of peace - after centuries of brutal wars.

    But you can continue to think that Hawaii was a paradise, with humans devoid of greed, jealousy, and ambition before the "white man." You were killed for walking in the shadow of royalty, or if their shadow fell on you. Your Ae Ae banana, and the choice fish, were reserved for the Royalty. Slavery existed here before the "white man" - more oppressive than any in the South - more akin to Egyptian slavery. And women were treated like trash, and maidens sacrificed. If you are unhappy with the inequalities in the U.S. today, then you wouldn't be labeling pre-contact Hawaii as paradise for human rights.

    No metal tools, no written language, no avenue for "progress" and conveniences like health care, leisure time, and the many advances of science. Truth is - it was a desolate land, with few resources, and the Polynesians started the disruption of the ecosystem with their introduction of many disruptive plants and animals - without which human existence would have been impossible.

    And "disease free" - you have to be kidding. Tooth decay, infections from injury, heart disease, and cancer were not brought here by the "white man." And do you think they left all the tropical diseases from New Zealand, Tahiti, and Samoa behind when they came here?

    And "naked" is a good thing??? Come on. Try being naked in full tropical sun, with tons of bugs and mosquitos that hitchhiked on the canoes they came here in - and try walking for miles on lava in bare feet, with no leather to make shoes - paradise??? - not quite.

    Why don't you leave Florida and give it back to the paradise that was there before the "white man?" And while you're at it, give back the rest of the U.S, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Australia, etc. - so they can be returned to paradise as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
    Ranger Smith likes this.
  9. Moose, I'll do my best answer you. :) Why don't I leave? At this point, we just don't have the money to leave. But if we did, we would go. When it comes to Hawaii, the term, "native", is generally applied to the first inhabitants, the Polynesians. But the Polynesians are just some of the many immigrants that have come here, no different than any other race of Man. I, as a f___ing haole, used to feel as you do, towards the Polynesians, that they got ripped off and abused. But, after living here, and being treated like shit for the "crime" of having White skin, I've lost most of my compassion for Polynesians. I came here with nothing but kindness and sympathy for Hawaiians, and contmept for the U.S. at the theft of Hawaii, but now, that's all gone. After the way these animalistic and primitive bastards treat me and other innocent people, I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE INJUSTICE OF THE U.S. TAKEOVER OF HAWAII. I think that Hawaiians saw all White people as the enemy, instead of the specific individuals that overthrew the monarchy, and that they made enemies of people who would otherwise have been their friends and helpers. It started with the White advisors of the Hawaiian kings, who were resented by the locals for having more power and influence than they did. And the racism and resentment among common, lowlife, scummy Hawaiians, took on a life of it's own. Even now, it's the scummiest, dirtiest, most hateful, local people, who squat on private and public lands, and claim to be the "real" owners. But as part of the U.S., it's sickening to me to see race-based housing and race-based healthcare. WHERE in Europe, do White people get preferential treatment? NOWHERE. But the U.S. government apparently made a deal, to get Hawaiians to go along with statehood, a deal that "legalizes" racial preferences. As for the land that I, "occupy", I paid several thousand dollars for, so it's not like I invaded an Indian village and shot everyone who used to live there. Hawaii is NOT a paradise, and it never was. Hawaii is the most racist state in the U.S., and many areas here are unregulated, unenforced GARBAGE dumps. And when I see the volunteers, picking up trash on the side of the road, what race of people do you think they are? The volunteer trash removers are 75% White, with the rest being Japanese and Chinese. Hawaiians tend to embrace a lazy, uncaring lifetsyle. The outside world looks at that as something romantic and cute, but the reality is that local people just DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING. As for the U.S. government, this state has ZERO Republicans or Libertarians in Congress, so there will be NO JUSTICE FOR ANYONE. The Democrats will maintain freebies for freeloaders and special rights for special races, because they are torn between their Big Business overlords who buy influence, and the local ignorant sheeple that vote for Dems.
     
  10. amazondk

    amazondk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,404
    I have not checked in here for a long time. It has been a very long time since I have been to Hawaii. But, some of the same syndrome is found in my home state, Montana. I have a lot of respect for the native american culture that existed on the great plains at the time the European american arrived. But, that does not mean that it was any paradise. The culture was stamped on bad. And, the outcome was not pretty. My mother was raised next to the Crow reservation near Custer´s battlefield. Her hometown Hardin looks nothing like it did when I was a kid and the Indians were mostly on the reservation. Anyway that is a complex story. Here in Amazonia the native population was decimated by European contact. At the arrival of the Europeans there were 10 million people in Brazilian Amazonia. This population was complex, there were large settlements and organized societies. The population probably dropped by 80 to 90 percent. There was a case a few years ago north of here on the Venezuelan border where the indian resveration was increased to something probably larger than all of Hawaii for a few thousand indians. The white settlers were successful rice farmers who were the main source of income for the indians. Some of their families had been there over 50 years. Their land was expropriated and they had to leave. There is no rice produced there today. I spent quite a bit of time in Boa Vista the states capital at the time. The federal police stayed in the same hotel that I did. It was an ugly situation. And, no one won. Least of all the indians. In reality the land belongs to no one. It will out live us all. I did spend some time in Polynesia a long long time ago. I was in Western Samoa several times. They were great people and I was treated very well. But, that was not Hawaii.

    dk
     
  11. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Don - nice to see you visiting this forum again.

    Ron :)
     
  12. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Ditto
     
  13. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    502
    Yep,anything about Peacock bass and Arowanas in your fish pond surrounded by Lipstick palms is something I could read more of. Amazon lilies as weeds.
    I'm so fed up with city life here. Tired of the incredible traffic. Tired of the stupid people- proud of that stupidity it seems- and the whole scene. The bay area is a busy place. I'm not a off the grid type..but I could live without neighbors. Easily.
     

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