Why do Floridians plant Phoenix sp.more then Californians?

Discussion in 'PALM TREES - WHERE TROPICAL STARTS' started by Stan, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    500
    They must have a bad P.R. agent here. I never see many types of Phoenix palms planted out. When I watch "Moving" to Florida shows on hgtv,I see some killer P.loureirii palms- complete with patterned trunks and big but short canopy's of fronds. Then you have P.silvestris,P.reclinata's,etc.
    Since most of them take dry air and little water...We Californians never see them in yards. I've never seen P.loureirii in the bay area. Not once,anywhere.
    That's my beef.:D
     
  2. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Personally, I don't plant Phoenix since a trip to the emergency room after working in and around my Phoenix roebelinii. And after the birth of my son, I also got rid of the P. reclinatas. I knew it was only matter of time before he too would get nailed. An eyeball is no match for those nastiest of spines.

    I have heard all kinds of horror stories. And more than once they included cutting fronds off of tall Phoenix - only to have them fall on the cutter causing deep wounds. And a good friend broke his ankle badly and got nailed when trying to avoid a falling frond he had cut.
     
  3. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

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    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    Good question Stan. I don't ever plant them, even though I do like Medjool and Sylvestris. IMO, there are too many other species of palms that I would like to utilize in landscapes here other than Phoenix; like Pseudophoenix, Cyphophoenix, and Chuniophoenix. Plus, Phoenix species are know to be carriers of many lethal pathogens. Something I'd like to avoid spreading. Dean has a very valid point about the hazzards of the spines. They can be lethal too.
     
  4. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting that Floridians have a different taste in plants then Hawaiians too. You don't see the same heavy use of Ti plants in Florida as Hawaii. Same for Phoenix in Hawaii. Is P.reclinata used much in Hawaii?
    Phoenix right now are suffering all over the world. But,that's sort of recent.
    The P.loureirii in Florida are outstanding. Blue green fronds.dense but compact compared to the bigger species I should have wrote. Its not a small palm.
     
  5. Jim in Los Altos

    Jim in Los Altos Member

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    Location:
    9b or Sunset zone 16
    I love my Phoenix canariensis, reclinata, roebelenii, and hybrids and hate them at the same time for the reasons mentioned above. The spines are positively nasty and I use much care when removing them or tying them up away for human traffic.
     
  6. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    One of the first palms that ever caught my eye was the Phoenix canariensis when I was a college student. I promised myself when I bought a home I would plant one, which I have done. When moving fronds I had a spike skewer my hand between the ring and pinkie finger. When removed, the tip broke broke off inside my hand. Went to a doctor who referred me to a hand surgeon. The hand surgeon did not want to touch it since the "tip" was so small that he feared the damage that could happen digging around in my right hand to extricate it.

    It remained in my hand 6+ years until it eventually worked itself back to the surface that I lanced out myself. It caused alot of discomfort over the years. As much as I love the Palm, I would not replace it if this one died. Its a labor intensive pain the the a$$ palm to keep the dead fronds removed.
     
  7. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    The worst stabbing I ever got was from P.reclinata. It hurt like a poison dart. I was lucky nothing broke off or went deep. So,no disagreement here on that. Its just that they look so nice...In Florida,I really like that Nephrolepsis and Polypodium ferns colonize them. Here? maybe Myoporum or Ficus...not the same.
    And nothing here looks as Tropical as a clump of P.reclinata's. Even in San Francisco slightly stunted..eye catcher.
     
  8. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    So Stan, I guess the answer to your queston is as follows.....

    If you live in a marginal climate, and you want palms that grow and look nice, then you are "stuck" with Phoenix as prime choices. (no pun intended). :)

    But if you live in a more accommodating climate, especially the tropics, your selection of palms to plant increases into the hundreds, if not thousands. And if the choice for a small garden palm is between P. roebelinii or one of the colorful and more "friendly" Pinangas or Calyptrocalyx, for me the choice leads me away from the Phoenix.
     
  9. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    The common Phoenix in this bay area home landscape is the roebelenii. You will see the other Phoenix planted, but are used more in street and commercial landscaping here. My favorite is P. reclinata but is rarely seen. I learned my lesson the hard way on the spines. If I need to do any work on my Phoenix I take my hand clippers and remove the spines first.
     
  10. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    500
    But,Soufla isn't marginal. That's why it stood out to see so many Phoenix sp..P.rupicola is another that looks great in Florida. Hawaii? Only the edible date palm is grown from what I've seen on 'Hawaiian Life'. Something about Phoenix seem to ring with South Floridians.
     
  11. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Most Phoenix are planted on roadways and commercial properties because they can pretty much survive without care. In residential gardens, not as often as say 25 years ago. The availability of so many species that can be successfully grown here has diminished the use of Phoenix in many South Florida gardens.
     
  12. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Most Floridians are ex-northerners and the Phoenix looks like The Palm to them. First thing I bought after the house was the Phoenix roebelinii because it looks like the palm tree is supposed to look to me and because it is small and will never grow out of my view. Unfortunately, the date palms are dying out in Florida due to Lethal Yellowing.

    I bought fist three plants that I ever wanted when I started gardening. All of them are very popular here and all are wrong for Florida: my Meyer’s lemon seems affected by lethal Citrus Greening already, and my four Crepe myrtles do not look happy at all :(

    :SmileyPetalsHaappy Thanksgiving !
     
  13. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    I have been working in the tops of two of my P. canariensis the last few days. I noticed the newest fronds had fallen over and I knew right away what I would find when I got to the top. Here I go again fighting the Palm weevil. Here is a photo of a pupal case removed from the palm. IMG_7832.JPG
     
  14. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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  15. bepah

    bepah Active Member

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    817
    Location:
    Brentwood CA 9b
    I would counter that there are more Phoenix sp. in CA than in FL. Where I live, the endemic roebellinii and CIDP, we also see tons of hybrids as well. If you go to the Indio area, there are thousands of acres of dactyliferas....where the commercial crop is grown.......and finally, we are a much larger state.....they are grown up and down Hwt 5....you can't miss them.
     
  16. KennyRE317

    KennyRE317 Active Member

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    52
    Location:
    Seal Beach, CA 10a/10b
    there's a bunch of roebelenii's out here as well. one of the neighbors down the street just had all the trees and grass removed from the front yard and the first thing they did was plant about 7 or 8 triple roeb's from the big box store, they got slightly larger ones like 10gal plants, that border the sidewalk. they weren't properly planted either so i'm curious to see if they survive. big holes were dug and some are buried down at least a foot and weren't watered in. if i had known my neighbor wanted palms i have so many extras i would have happily planted for him, some with size too
     
  17. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Hmmm, a roebelenii death camp. Wonder if they will dig them up and return to the store when they perish?
     
  18. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Thanks for the photos - but sorry you had the ability to share.

    They will be a good reference for anyone else fighting the same battle. Hope you have a successful strategy.
     
  19. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    This is my 4th battle with them. One of my other CIDP has had three attacks in the last 8 years, the last attack was in Sept. on that one and now has 2' of new growth sticking out of the top. I may need to take a liking to the taste of the grub. I hear it can be consumed raw :eek: or fried. 3-7% protein and 10-30% fat. If I like the taste I more than likely would never have the problem again.
     
    Jim in Los Altos likes this.
  20. TonyLoco

    TonyLoco Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    South Florida
    Interesting, people like what's exotic. Floridians want to feel like they are in Beverly Hills with all the Phoenix lined avenues, whilst Californians want to feel like they are in the tropics.

    I think the proliferation of Phoenix Palms in public streets is quite a new thing here in South Florida. When I first moved here 10 years ago, I only noticed them in the upscale Bal Harbour neighborhood (on A1A). But now they have been planted everywhere, even in poorer neighborhoods and along the side of the freeways. They seem to be replacing Royal Palms, which is strange considering how much cheaper Royal Palms are here.
     

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