What the Wiki needs

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by fawnridge, Dec 11, 2011.

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  1. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    is pages of thumbnails. Quite nice having the listing by name and leaf shape. But if I don't know the name, what good is it? If we had several pages of thumbnails from the photos already in the Wiki, you could scan the pages until you find one that matches what you're looking for. Then you can click on the thumbnail and go to the Wiki page to learn the name. 25, 40, whatever number of thumbnails can comfortably fit on a page.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

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    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    Interesting idea, I like it...
     
  3. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Sounds good to me, as I find it time consuming clicking on the name to find the picture. Thumbnails may be a little to small. How about some way to click on the leaf shape that takes you to the first name in the catagory and then 1 click advance to the next name page? That would make browsing the pages and pictures faster.
     
  4. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    Thumbnails can be different sizes.... perhaps there could be an optional small/medium/large...
     
  5. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    This can be done. The wiki is extremely versatile/powerful. So many of these things can be accomplished if you know how, and want to take the time.

    Without going into a lot of detail - the present categorizing system is hardcoded and offers a tremendous amount of advantages to keeping things indexed, sorted, searchable, alphabeticallized, and many other useful functions - and does so easily - and can be edited with a simple tag that appears at the bottom of every "cultivar page." But photos can not be included in the main index page. And even if they could, the page would end up being very long.

    However, just about any page layout can be accomplished if you are willing to learn a little wiki code. Thumbnails can be any size, and can be placed in any arrangement that you would want. But it would require some work/time.

    Check the wiki page for this palm http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Bismarckia_nobilis

    There is a Gallery feature you will see here that would make a lot of this work easier. The rows, thumbnails sizes, captions, etc can be customized. If you log in, you can click the Edit tab and see the syntax to accomplish this. If you are not logged in, you can click the "View Source" tab and see it. You will be looking for just the section that pertains to the Gallery.

    It is not as difficult as it looks, and I am willing to help "teach" or advise anyone that wants to give your idea a try.
     
  6. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    What could be done - on the "Oak Leaf" page, for example, we could put a link to another page that would contain the Thumbnail Gallery for those leaf shapes, arranged in the same order as the alphabetical "Oak Leaf" page. It would not be necessary to upload anymore photos, as they are already there and can be "called" for easily in the Gallery Syntax. It would also be easy to insert or omit names, and the Gallery would automatically keep everything arranged. Names could be easily changed, and any AKAs could also be included in the caption. But at the moment, I can't think of a way to then click on that photo and have you taken to the "cultivar page" for that plant, only the larger photo. But it may be possible. If you guys are serious, I can do some coding to see if it can be accomplished. But in any event, you would have the name, and it would be easy to get to the page. But the larger photo should be enough if wanting to confirm and ID. If needing more info of photos, you could then navigate to the page which may of not contain more photos/info.

    If you guys are seriously willing to commit to something like this, I can set up an example that would be the starting to one such page. But I will caution you - this will take a considerable amount of work - and it is way too much work for one person to attempt alone. I don't think anyone appreciates how much work Bren put into this already.
     
  7. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    What the hell is the definition of a "wiki"? Is it a Hawaiian ? :confused:

    Sounds like someone with a heavy accent needing Whiskey. :p
     
  8. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Yes, Wiki is Hawaiian, but I had nothing to do with the name.

    The platform was named and in existence even before Wikipedia began using it to create their Encyclopedia. It was originally conceived in the scientific community as a way for scientists, engineers, etc. in different parts of the world to work and share on studies/experiments in an easy and accurate manner. There are now several incarnations, but we use the same one as Wikipedia does (MediaWiki). It is highly supported, and is constantly improving with the help of millions in the MediaWiki community that collaborate on it.

    The real term is "wiki wiki," and means hurry up, fast, quick, etc. The bus transport between the international and inter-island terminals at Honolulu Airport is the Wiki Wiki bus.
     
  9. junglegal

    junglegal Esteemed Member

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    St. Pete FL
    I missed this way back when but I still think this sounds like an excellent idea. I'd be willing to help as time permits.
     
  10. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    The Wiki is a great tool, but it needs to be kept up. If a Croton has 2 names attached to it, should it not have the photos posted under both names? (Some do and some do not) I like to look at the Wiki photos to get ideas of Crotons I may like to obtain. Poor 'Andrew Kinsey' has no photo, but 'Peace' has them. I have tried to fix the problems like this that I have noticed, but could not remember how to add the photos. Also had the idea to add something like this for those without photos.
    pizap.com14466662503401.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  11. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Scott, when I completely re-did the whole wiki to make things uniform and conform to the vote we had for photo size and Dean's change in software, I tried to put all the photos under each and every name, even if the same croton has several names. No easy task as I redid thousands and thousands of photos (over six hundred crotons and some having over ten photos on one page). Please look at Picasso's Paintbrush and notice all the photos under its four different names, including the blue links that takes you to the other names. White Eburneum, some of the AFD's and many others are done in the same fashion. The only exceptions I can remember is when the name was only very seldom used or was outdated, and in that case I just mentioned that in the more common name entry. If you'd like to give me some examples of synonym names that are missing, and if they're names that are fairly commonly used for the croton, I'd be happy to add them. I have tried to keep up the wiki for years now- you can see the Wiki photos 2013, Wiki photos 2014, and Wiki photos 2015 threads with entries that have been added by me and documented so that all of you will be notified if yours has been added and all of you can give corrections if you'd like. I have added hundreds I would say and have re-done the whole wiki twice now. I thought I was doing a good job. If you think you can do better at keeping things up, please go ahead. I'm happy to send the job your way. I have never heard the name Andrew Kinsey for a croton. Maybe others have. Can't do anything about things that have never been posted on this forum and I don't know anything about.

    Also, if you'd like to do the above picture for crotons without photos, it's ok by me if it's ok with others. I won't volunteer for that one. I don't have enough time anymore now that the school year has started. Thanks.
     
  12. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Anna,
    The statement was not about anything you did wrong. You have put a lot of hard work into it and it shows. A great job well done. My statement was addressing that putting photos in the Wiki is not easy. The Wiki page for Andrew Kinsey is there and I was going to place the photos that are on the Wiki page of 'Peace there also. The Wiki says the are one in the same. Sorry if you were offended by the post as that was not my intent at all.
     
  13. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Scott, I did not remember ever seeing Andrew Kinsey and have never heard anyone use this name. I have added all the Peace photos on that page now and removed the asterisk. I will add the blue link when I look up how to do it.

    If you and Bren would like to take over the wiki job that would be great for me. I've given Bren the information on how to use the new software syntax and you can see how I've done things when you click the edit button. I'm sure Dean will help too.

    It has been difficult for me to know the appropriate things to do sometimes. Some tell me any seedlings should be added. Others tell me a seedling should not be added unless it is worthy and has been shared with others. And who determines that? No one gives their opinions. The people who know most, contribute least, and it is a decision I'm not equipped to handle. And if I don't add them, then there are hard feelings. It's a lose-lose situation for me. People frequently have suggestions for me about what should be done with the wiki. What isn't being done right, what should be added. I don't like being the bad guy and I don't like making decisions for this group on my own and upsetting others when I do, or if I don't. I would like to take a break from this, so if you and Bren would take it over, that would be great. The wiki is nice and uniform now, every page has been done exactly the same. I have not added anything that I can't determine is correct. I don't add information willy-nilly thinking it can be changed later if it isn't true. I've tried to make it as reliable a source as it possibly can be from what information is available on this forum. I feel that an encyclopedia should be the best resource available and that's how I've treated it, looking out for the interests of beginners and those looking for accurate information. It is a good time to pass it on. The posting of photos has really slowed down, so this will make it easier for you guys too. Thanks.
     
  14. keith

    keith Active Member

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    148
    Anna, we all have failed to thank you enough. You have spent many, many hours of you time to fix the wiki. I think the wiki will fall apart without your help. I hope you dont take too long of a break from it. As for any decisions you have made- I think they were all great. Im glad you found out about crotons and hope your love for them keeps growing. Many thanks to you!!
     
  15. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,753
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Anna,

    I appreciate in talking to you this past Saturday in regards to the croton "family" that we all have come to known. You have given a tremendous amount of your personal time ( Wiki photo organization ) for all of us to enjoy over the past several years, and I as some others are quite guilty of not contributing like we should. I hope you will consider staying around and if you feel like you you need to step back, I certainly understand. You have taken this forum to such high expectations that your shoes will be hard to fill. Seriously!

    To my best knowledge, the correct name should be Helen Rutherford. As far as the croton known as Andrew Kingsly, I have never heard of this variety in all my years ! Or ever seen it in print. In the Wiki, under this name it's referred to page 39 in the croton book, but listed as Peace. Has anyone seen this name listed in any old journals, articles, etc? Besides, who says this is the original name? Documentation ?

    As far as seedlings.....my opinion is always been to grow them on, see what they turn out to be. And this can take up to 3 years I have found for color to come into it's prime, even future leaf size. Who the hell wants to look at a bunch of 2-3 seedlings that are mostly green at this stage or maybe a splash of color in it? Not me. Jeeeze, it's hard enough trying to get names right on our own, established plants.

    And while I'm at it, I would like to address something at this past croton tour at Phil's that several of us noticed. With only 18-20 people in attendance, there was an extremely lopsided ratio of plants-to- buyers. I for one don't think it's fair for people to "dump" off 40-50 plants for auction AND then doesn't stick around to participate in the buying portion of the auction. Because, there has been an "unofficial cap " but agreeable by many that we should bring up to 10 plants per person only. Do we really want a 3-4 hour auction? Besides, this only forces low bidding and very low prices. It was Saturday! I would love to hear your own opinions in regards to this, pro or con. Give it to me, I have tough skin. Lol.
     
  16. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
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    "Wiki-Wiki" is what you say when you want to order Whiskey in Miami. :confused:
     
  17. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks for your kind words Keith and Jeff. I've never asked for thanks nor help. I've always enjoyed improving the wiki and 'keeping it up'. I take pride in the work that I do, no matter what it is, and it's upsetting when someone unfoundingly says I haven't 'kept it up'. I am not burned out. As all of you know, I am always urging people to post photos so I can put them in, or to add any information that can be documented. Anyway, it's someone else's turn to take it over and I am very happy to hand the job over to Scott and Bren who, I'm sure, will do an awesome job. My work is done and I am an official regular participant on this forum.
     
  18. junglegal

    junglegal Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    St. Pete FL
    Wait, what? o_O I don't remember volunteering to take anything over. Like I said above & in our PM Anna, I am happy to help as time permits, the WIKI is a collective effort.
     
  19. Native son

    Native son Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    10a
    Anna this is a hard crowd to please. Rest assured what you do and have done is greatly appreciated your work with the Wiki has been wonderful. The old saying stands You can please some of bla bla bla. MUCH LOVE from here Best wishes Lamar
     
  20. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks, Lamar.

    Bren, sorry I volunteered you. I understand you will do some, but don't want to be in charge of all of it. It actually has been so slow lately, I've had almost nothing to do. This year has been exceedingly slow for photos here. Maybe Scott would like to be in charge. He did say he wanted to fix the problems in the wiki. Scott?

    In any case, I'm bowing out. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Thanks to those who provided their beautiful photos of their gorgeous plants or information to make the wiki a good resource.
     
  21. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

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    1,644
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Anna - many thanks for all you've done for the Wiki and for those of us that frequent this site. Take a break and recharge. Remember that no good deed goes unpunished and the reward for good volunteer work is more work.

    Jeff - You raised some good points about the auction. That was 20 plants total by the two no-shows, one of whom had a good reason. Having attended most of the official and unofficial gatherings of this august group I've noted the following:
    Prices realized - always higher on east coast - usually due to spring timing when attendees are more eager to spend; higher attendance at east coast and Ft. Meyers meetings; more disposable income of attendees on east coast; attendance of a few one-time heavy spenders that drive some prices to absurd levels (unless you're the seller), e.g., $65 for a 3 gal Philip Geduldig that one could not give away last weekend; attendees at west coast meeting are usually advanced collectors that have large collections and some like me that are almost filled up so do not bid on more common stuff. We all get more selective as our collections grow. Plants that used to bring high prices, e.g., Playboy, Glen Roof, are 'common' now for many of us and do not bring the high prices they used to only a few years ago. A thumb-rule I use if I'm putting a plant up for auction is - is this something I'd be willing to bid on if I did not have it, i.e., no scraggly 1 gal crap. I myself have not heard any complaints about the length of the auctions since you move them along at a good pace. The 3-4 hour drive after the auction is the pain in the posterior.

    A few comments on hosting a meeting. I did not find it particularly gruesome - get ice, get bottled water, clean garage for food service, set out trash receptacles, provide paper plates and plastic ware, make sandwiches, clean up yard (but since we're all gardeners and not paid attendees at the Chelsea Flower Show, the place does not have to be plu-perfect.) It's not that difficult!
    So if you're thinking of hosting, give it a whirl. Enough for tonite and onward through the fog......
     
    Bullwinkle, Native son and annafl like this.
  22. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Esteemed Member

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    Location:
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    Thansk Anna,Phil is right,take a break and do not pay too much attention to the screaming from the stands :) Jeff the auction was great to buy and not so good to sell but I picked up many nice varieties at some great prices (a nice large Bob Alonso for 5$)
    East Coast auctions definitely get more action and I heard from many people who just could not handle a 12 hour day to head to Tampa and back . Phil is right about many things,the hosting is really no big deal,I really enjoyed our event last November and I would do it again a year from now with no hesitation.Let us see what happens when we do an east Coast auction next year??
     
  23. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Well - no family is perfect - but most seem to work everything out in the end. Hopefully this is such a family.

    As to the Auction. This might be a good time to mention the Hi-Tech online auction feature that will be launched on Tropiscape hopefully in a week or two. I am drumming up business at the moment, in hopes of having a good amount of rare or desirable plants for sale at a Grand Opening.

    It will be free, and anyone can list plants, for any purpose. It will be easy to use and very professional. It should prove to be a much more advantageous manner in which to raise money for an organization or nurseryman. It has all the whistles and bells - like reserve price, auto re-listing, anti-snipe feature, full disclosure of all bidding history, buyer/seller communication, start/end options, "Buy It Now," etc. etc. etc.

    Please take a look at the testing phases and consider registering as a Vendor and listing some plants at the Grand Opening - or as a Bidder - so you will be ready to bid when it opens. Click on any of the auctions to get an idea how it all looks and works. http://www.tropiscape.com/wp/tropiscape-auction-page/

    Contact me with any questions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  24. Perry Edge

    Perry Edge Active Member

    Messages:
    126
    Jeff, speaking strictly for myself, I don't mind the long auctions, especially since we meet no more than twice a year. If the Croton Society was still alive and had plant sales, that would be another way for people to buy. Mark Peters is doing a good job at plant sales at various botanical gardens, but once you've bought all he has, that leaves only the auctions to pick up more varieties. The auctions always make for a long day if you are traveling and don't live locally to the auction site. But I don't mind the drive, even if the auction is in your neighborhood. The more plants the better for those of us who don't have deep pockets and have to settle for the less pricy varieties.

    Anna, your contribution to the Wiki is priceless, and I hope you can stay involved, even if you have to cut back on the time you can spend.
     
    Kingdavid likes this.
  25. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Perry,

    You made some valid points. And it wasn't so much the length. The point that people were saying was that we should all "somewhat" play by the rules. 10 plants for locals and I remember people ( in the past )agreeing for those that traveled long distances could bring more ( 15-20) to help compensate for gas money. As we all know, there are a LOT of crotons now being produced these days. But that's a great thing! Nothing we can't all work out, were here to have fun.
     

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