What is this palm?

Discussion in 'PALM TREES - WHERE TROPICAL STARTS' started by Pix, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys,
    Is it possible to tell for sure?This palm came with the house. I finally decided that it is Dwarf Sugar Palm (Arenga engleri?), and therefore I like it. I have 2 more clusters of them and now am dividing the clusters and spreading them around the house. I assume it is dwarf.
    Any help on this one?
     

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  2. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I do not know why the last picture got rotated.
     
  3. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Welcome to the Forum! Nice looking palm, but your palm is not a A. engleri. The leaf tips look to be pointed and I see no black fibers on the trunk. Here are a few photo close ups of my A. engleri for comparison.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  4. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Also of note A. engleri has silver color on the leaf under side. IMG_4764.JPG
     
  5. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome to TropiScape Pix. Scott is correct - definitely not an A. engleri.

    I am going to go out on a limb (frond) and say it is a Chamaedorea radicalis. Do some Googling for pics and tell me if they look like yours.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  6. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Guys, thank you so much for your answers! It is more likely a Chamaedorea radicalis . The leaves do not have a silver lining underside. I googled the pictures and I read what it does. I have 3 clusters, and the more sun they have gotten the smaller and weaker they are… (I assumed that the previous owners planted all three at the same time). My husband thinks that they are not trees at all but bushes. Anyway, the healthiest bush (on the first picture) is already 5” tall. It was cut back badly by lawn service a year ago (when we bought a house) because it was covering a walkway, and it is not back to its original size yet. I am very happy to find out that they are slow growing dwarfs since I moved the weakest ones on the front of the house.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2014
  7. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Pix - Chamaedoreas are shade palms, so what you have observed further suggests C. radicalis.
     
  8. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so I'm going to say that it is a multiple planted Ravenea rivularis. Tell me what you think Dean.
     
  9. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Dean,
    the irony of life is that I have 3 big Oak trees on the site and I was looking for the shade loving plants, but after a year of raking leaves and cleaning gutters I cut them back drastically and now everything is in the sun! :(

    I am going to google the Ravenea rivualis now :)
     
  10. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Well, they say that Ravenea rivualis is a fast grower, and mine is definitely not.
     
  11. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    I considered that when looking at that one pic with the two trunks. But then I thought I saw, in another pic, a clump. And she referred to a clump - so that is why I went with the Cham. Now, perhaps, and quite possibly, the one with the two "bigger" trunks is a Rav, and different than the others. But I have seen C. radicalis with a prostrate trunk like that. It would take more Pics from Pix to be sure. :confused:
     
  12. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Dean, they are all the same. The more sun (and less water), the smaller and more yellow they were. Two unhappy clusters of 5 and 6 I divided and moved in November of last year. Now I have one of 2 and three of 3. The largest and the happiest plant (in the shade by downspout) has 7 trunks and I would love to split them too.
    I resized my small enough pictures to really small pictures. I realized that it was unnecessary. Should I post more pictures? The leaves are kind of spiraling on this plant. It is why I decided that it is Arenga.
     
  13. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Sometimes it is just hard to tell from pics. In this case, if they are indeed Ravs, then they are stunted almost beyond recognition - because these palms need lots of space as individuals, not planted together, and need tons of water and fertilizer. I have only rarely seen Majesty (R. rivularis) as multiples in pots, although I know it does happen - and certainly Majesties are more common, so more likely.

    The only pic that might help is a good close up or two of the trunks from a few clumps.

    Edit: After taking Pix's last photo and turning it right side up, I think Tim may have the right ID. The biggest frond in that shot looks too big to be a Cham. But in any event Pix, if he is right, unfortunately those palms will probably never be healthy and something you will be happy with. Your space may be better utilized with a healthier palm or species that will thrive for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  14. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    My first thought was R.rivularis also but I have never seen them so stunted. R. rivularis are water hogs and very heavy feeders. I have seen a few in my area that were planted and not taken care of stunt somewhat and finally the palms gave up. The previous home owners more than likely purchased them as multi potted plants at one of the local box stores and just placed them in the ground without any care. If you really like to grow R rivularis dig those out and go to your local garden center and buy them new, they are pretty cheap. Buy single potted ones and plant in a area that has good soil and that you can keep pretty wet. If you want to save the ones you have separate them to single plants and get a bag of palm fertilizer and keep them well watered and feed. Be warned R. rivularis is not a frost hardy palm and will brown out in a frost, but will make a comeback over the summer. Pix, What is your growing location?​
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  15. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    I put such a lot work in everything that I will probably give them a chance as is and see what happens. I love their tropical look and the fact than they are small. They are between the crotons adding texture. I will post a picture someday. I wish I knew for sure what they are :( All my plants are small since they are all new. I was hoping to learn what to expect from them on this forum. As for my growing location, I am in 9b (23 minutes from your West Chase location according to the Google). My conditions are probably milder since I am closer to the coast. Our community doesn’t have fences and I have northern side wide open. With heavy cold wind from the North this winter the palms that I moved on front got their leaves damaged on the tips. The healthiest plant is in protected spot and got no damage. I would leave it as is but it is too much of the plant in that tight spot…
     
  16. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    I saw these palms in the flesh this last Saturday, and yes they are multi planted R. rivularis.
     
    Jim in Los Altos likes this.
  17. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the update - goes to show how difficult it can be to ID things from photos. I take it you met Pix??? Did you give her any palm advice?
     
  18. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dean :) Yes, he met Pix and he didn't give me an advice to throw it away and buy new :)

    He is very nice. So many people here are just obsessed identifiers and he is a normal gardener :)

    You are an extremely nice too doing all this unrewarded work! :)

    I bought one new Majesty palm anyway (since they are now on sale everywhere here) just to see the difference.

    Scott told me that the multiples do not grow fast, and it is exactly what I want!

    I will move them before they grow big. I move everything now and then (and I do not mind since I am fighting for every planting hole with my oak’s roots). I also have a lot of temporarily landscape fixes since I am on the corner lot visible from the street in our “no fence” community
     
  19. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

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    So tell me Pix, what is a normal gardener anyway? I guess without all the obsessed identifiers, you might not have gotten a correct ID on yourpalm.
     
  20. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    I think that the normal gardener is also something else but not only a gardener. I hope I am still normal :( …but I do nothing but gardening right now :(
     
  21. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    … and I am very grateful for my correct ID since I am just a damned perfectionist and a control freak with a lots of education and want to know everything…but I was happier without ID :( I thought it will never grow big…My husband doesn’t believe still that it will develop a trunk…
    ...and I apologize to all the obsessed identifiers. I am here because of you. I wish I was one of you, happy people… One day may be. Right now I just cannot afford a garden that will take over all my life. It is why I am learning…
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  22. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Pix, Here is mine that has cleared the second floor gutter line of the roof.
    Img_4940.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2014
  23. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Majesty palms...anybody know why they have jumped so much in price in California?. They are not "I'll take ten" any longer. I was thinking they might do well in my narrow side yard..growing into the sun. I see that HD only have them in near 5 gallon and at a good price. And since the fronds looked very "indoors"..eh,the acclimation process of seeing large fronds burn wasn't turning me on.
     
  24. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Price is always supply and demand.

    And you're right, a shade grown one will tend to burn quite a bit, especially if planted out this time of year.
     
  25. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    You know, guys…I do not think that I have what we decided I have… How about the cats palm??
     
  26. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Pix, Yours are 100% Majesty palms.
     
  27. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Scott, I bought and planted 2 Majesty palms (from two different Big Boxes) just to shade my nursery created of your tis…they are clearly different. I will post the pictures tomorrow. I believe my palms will never develop a trunk...
     
  28. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Here are shots of Chamaedorea cataractarum (cat palm) for you to compare. Img_6214.jpg Img_6215.jpg IMG_6217.JPG
     
  29. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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  30. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Look, these are 2 Majesty Palms that I bought 3 month ago in Walmart and Lowe’s (for $10 each; I wish I could give them to Stan when I no longer need them :). They were in 3 gal pots. They are upright.
     

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  31. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    These are my palms in question. They start arching from the ground. (And they are as minimum 3 years old).
     

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  32. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Here is a view on both.
     

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  33. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    There is the palm in question behind one of the Majesty palms. I moved it from the largest clump and it wasn’t doing well and didn’t give much shade, so I stuck the Majesty Palm on the front of it. You can see that the leaflets are a bit narrower and longer on my palm.
     

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  34. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Here id my nursery:). The Kiwi is probably local.
     

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  35. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Morning Pix! Check out the Palm Encyclopedia. If you have not, just click on Extra Features in the top menu bar under Palmpedia logo. You will be amazed with the Palm Encyclopedia
     
  36. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    I tried the Palm Encyclopedia ones… I got scared to find out that there are dozens of different varieties under each name. It is just overwhelming for me right now.
    And the Croton Encyclopedia is missing the article on sun loving varieties. It looks that there was one...ones?
    Anyway, I must go garden:rolleyes: I bought the Milwaukee Sawzall for my gardening yesterday:D
     
  37. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Pix, I just had a thought! o_O How would you like a Mule (Butia x Syagrus) for the garden. Fast growing loves sun and takes the cold. Img_6232.jpg
     
  38. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Do you have one extra;)? I have researched, and it is a good palm for my garden. …but God Almighty! MULE palm! Sterile! I will never learn all these palms:(
    ...And I try to go slow in my gardening until I can figure out what I want... It is already hard to maintain even as little as I have:(
     
  39. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Pix, It is in need of a good home. :Weeding1.gif
     
  40. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Scott, I've just started seeing the light at the end of the tunnel :(... I thought I would have a break until Phil shows up with his presentation…and his goodies;)

    …but yes, I can give it a home, thank you:)
     

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