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The Meeting Unknowns

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by palmisland, Dec 15, 2010.

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  1. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    These were brought by various members to the Croton Society Meeting for identifying. All magnificent, almost all unknown. The first one was one of my favorites.:eek:
     

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  2. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    S'more unknowns.:) (sorry the pics are a little bright)
     

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  3. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Randy,

    Glad you could make it over to the Glock's house. The third picture in Post #1 is what I have been calling along, Red Foot. Some thought or considered it the true Rapture. Bob Alonzo and Mark took a look and ruled out Rapture and didn't have a name.

    The third picture in Post #2 turned out to be the correct Colonel Bob Bullock.

    The other four crotons have no names.
     
  4. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Jeff, where's the real Rapture that Johnny identified for you?
     
  5. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ray,

    Did you not see the plant that I brought on saturday? It was the Johnny Shelton "Rapture" that he sold me many moons ago. Bob and Mark looked at it and thought it was, but not totally sure. Lee saw it and shook his head no, thought it was maybe a Dreer plant. Onward.....

    So what did you think of the Colonel Bob Bullock? Pretty plant, huh?
     
  6. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Jeff - I'm glad to see the Colonel. This confirms that the one I've been calling "Big Red" is correct. (See below) There was some discussion at the first meeting at my house as to whether mine was the Colonel.
     

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  7. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Here are more that were brought for professional ID.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    The second one in the last post is probably Pinocchio.
     
  9. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ricky,

    That's right, and I believe it had some solid red blotching in some of the leaves.

    The last picture was a Rapture that I had bought many years ago and that Bob and Mark looked at. They were fairly certain of that, but not 100%.
     
  10. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Yes Jeff, I hope this cutting I got roots quickly. LOL
     
  11. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    The Master at work. Bob Alonzo & Jeff try to make sense of all the cultavars brought for IDing.:confused:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Well, I hope the cutting was long enough to get two or even three off of it. And no....I don't want the Mortii in trade.
     
  13. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Ray - Ahh, I think you got a cutting of Wilma ... :confused:

    LOL :p

    Ron.
     
  14. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    If a Croton is hard to Identify then its just another Unnamed Hybrid which in fact there are 1000's. Best thing to do is tag them Unamed hybrid with a number Like Unamed Hybrid #1 until you see a photo of one like yours that has a name. IDing Crotons is almost impossible unless theres a photo that goes along with it. You dont want a Garden or Collection with Misnamed plants for sure. I have seen many that just cracks me up with the wildest names you have ever heard of.
    Nothing against the Croton IDers but once again I stress if its not in the Book (Frank Browns) Then its just another Beautiful Hybrid. Some may disagree but proof is in the pudding. Photos are worth 1000 words.
     
  15. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    You put alot of faith in a book (Frank Browns) with its wrong Ids on some pages. If you dont want a garden with misnamed plants, why would you want a book with misnamed plants? The book is good,but not great.
     
  16. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    Your almost right, But if you have no Faith in Frank Browns Book. Then I guess a fancy name someone made up in there head will work? Is that what your saying? Even the Exotica Book or Reasoners nurserys Book with Photos. Oh My so confusing. I been fooling with Crotons now for very long time I Have sold and Mostly gave away 1000's of Crotons in my day. And i have seen time and time again the Dreaded IDing of Crotons come up. Without some reference point you have just a plain ole Unnamed Hybrid sadly enuf. Everyone wants a name when simply there isnt one, something we just have to live with. Being Crotons are soooo unstable.
     
  17. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    Yes we all want Ids. But you are saying F.B. book is the word. I need to start calling my (ex pg 14) Petras, Davis #2. Just one example of mistakes in the book. Maybe just a printing mistake,but then maybe not a proper ID.
     
  18. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    LOL, Yes i know but with that attitude you will never have the correct names. If not Frank Brown? Than who is the Expert, What reference do you follow. If you have a different Reference point for IDing your Crotons im very sure the Board and Myself would like to know. Crotons of the World has a few errors but please Dont knock Frank Browns work, Im sure he wont be happy. Today its still the Bible until another one hits the shelfs :)
     
  19. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Where's the list of corrections to The Book?
     
  20. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Never mind, I found it.
     
  21. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b

    They asked John Lennon what he thought of Elvis. His reply "before Elvis there was nothing". Before Frank Brown there was nothing.

    By the way Scott, I am certain that the photos mis-id's in Dr. Brown's book were mistakes of the publisher layout person, not Dr. Brown and Bob Alonso's mis-identification.
     
  22. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    Mr Croton Guru, Don't get your panties in a knot. I said that it has "mistakes". Many books for referance have mistakes. As a new grower to Crotons who has the book, I can not use it for 100% correct IDing. Frank Brown put a lot of good hard work into the book and I commend him for the work. As with the "Bible" you believe it or you dont.
     
  23. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    Maybe So, But the way you talk i was almost thinking you where the new Authority on Crotons being you know all the errors in Mr. Browns Book. And cant except there are more unknowns then Knowns and in Life with out a reference point you have nothing.

    What i do is take a prescribed Xanax and just relax, Having Unnamed Crotons in your collection isnt the end of the world :)

    Most important thing in the Croton World is Reference Point, Without that you have only heresay and Guessing from people with colorful Imaginations. (Self proclaimed IDers)
     
  24. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    Maybe you need 2 Xanax . I never said I was a the new Authority (I don't call myself Croton Guru) on Crotons. If I do not get a name on a Croton so be it. I am not growing it for a name, I am growing it because I like the looks of the plant. If I get a name great. If I dont get a name the sun still comes up tomorrow.
     
  25. Borgy230

    Borgy230 Active Member

    Messages:
    326
    Location:
    Miami Beach
    Scott, I agree that the book may be good for the varieties that are in it, but just because a variety is not in the book does not mean it doesnt have a right to have a name. If someone finds a new variety, and no one in our croton society can identify it at all, or if its a seedling, then that person certainly has the right to name it.

    The croton society and its members are the ones who have the right to create names and ID these plants, we are the authority on them,
     
  26. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    I agree with you, they do have the right to a name. I never said otherwise.:) I have posted many for ID even if it came with a name correct or not. I have name tags on all my plants that I have received a 100% correct name on. Yes I have a few that the members here did not ID, and they will wait for more growth to get the proper ID. I have seen pics here of Crotons that many like the looks of, but it may not be to my taste. Some really do not care for the Green & Yellows, but I love them. I do have one ( not telling the name) I could care less about,but I bought it and I am growing it.
     
  27. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    lol, The name was a quickie was just a nick name givin to me by people that know me and my World Renown Website which won a few awards and Articles in the Newspaper My research on Crotons is very extensive and Made some of the large Collectors today some of the Biggest so hmm maybe Guru does fit. And when i say pulling names of Crotons off the top of your head is Abserd thats plain and simple what it is. Another words in your mind or others that plant you named has no Authentication or Reference, Now I suggest and suggested Photo it, Name it, with a brief where,when of your Hybrid and maybe then that would suffice without that your may just be adding to todays problem. Which is names that dont belong. And i see this converstaion is really going no where, I see your set in your ways which is fine by me, Some people just dont want to follow or use Facts. *Sends you some Xanax* :)
     
  28. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    :confused:I have no idea what you are trying to say, maybe to many Xanax on your part. I have not pulled names off of the top of my head or have never named a Croton. If anyone seems to be set in there ways it seems to be yourself. If I post a topic or picture on here you do not need to reply. PS How many Xanax did you pop? Oh wait you do not need to reply.
     
  29. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    Your very Negative, And a bit of a smart a#%, I recommend you play with artificial Crotons because you know squat about the real ones. And further more I really dont care for a so-called Croton collector to make negative comments on anything Frank Brown did errors from copywriters or otherwise.
    If you dont want to be educaded on crotons and want to argue this forum im guessing isnt for you
     
  30. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    I am on this forum to become more educated on Crotons. This forum has a lot of great teachers and alot for everyone to learn. That is why we are here and to share knowledge on a great plant. Please reread my prev. posts as I said the book was "good". Look at it this way. If it was not for the corrections posted here on Palmpedia by forum members, how can one use the book as a reference guide?
     
  31. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Gentlemen please - it appears you guys are not going to hug and make-up. The personal sniping needs to cease, it will spiral to nowhere good. In the spirit of the Holiday Season, lets let it rest. :)

    Kindest regards to both of you,

    Ron. ;)
     
  32. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    Agreed :) As far as Franks Book you are right many errors i saw them 10 yrs ago. But For the most part in Franks book I mostly was very interested in the History part more than anything. And sorry for the heated debate, I tryed back when to make the corrections in my Web site which will be up and running this week. I seem to have some Server issues at the moment :( Happy Holidays to all.
     
  33. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    IMPORTANT

    If you guys are going to make differences of opinion regarding IDs personal, then this is never going to work.

    It is neither a lack of character or lack of IQ if you disagree with someone about the name of a Croton. Please don't make it a personal issue. It does nothing to support your position by calling another Crotonhead a name.

    From what I've seen and read, there may be more confusion regarding names in this group of plants than any other on the planet. So - again - please don't make any disagreements personal.
     
  34. Jim Glock

    Jim Glock Active Member

    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Fort Myers/Cudjoe Key
    Dean, I know Scott Mcintosh and have read many of his post for several years. Scott is a true gentleman and Croton lover. It appears that this was not an issue until recent events.
     
  35. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    Nothing Personel by me anyways :), Just trying to Educate the new Guys.
     
  36. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Jim,

    I understand completely. Scott is not only a Croton lover but a great supporter of Palmpedia, and a gardening guru. My comments were directed for the most part at the other guru.
     
  37. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Dave when you address someone directly with "Your very Negative, And a bit of a smart a#%" - that makes it personal. Just don't address people personally unless you have something positive to say, and all will be cool.
     
  38. Croton Guru

    Croton Guru Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    SouthFlorida
    "I have no idea what you are trying to say, maybe to many Xanax on your part. I have not pulled names off of the top of my head or have never named a Croton. If anyone seems to be set in there ways it seems to be yourself. If I post a topic or picture on here you do not need to reply. PS How many Xanax did you pop? Oh wait you do not need to reply."

    Maybe so, But only then responded from this That I took as a attack on my Disability. And that seems to be getting a little Personel, for one to dwell on Xanax in there many replys

    But anyways its over :) And forgotten.
     
  39. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    It does take two to escalate a disagreement into personal attacks. And this is a perfect example of how easily things can spin out of control when comments are directed at someone of a personal nature.

    Unfortunately that is the nature of communicating on the web. Things get taken differently than if in person. A discussion or disagreement about a cultivar that would be fun in person, can deteriorate into name calling on the web.

    So please, let's realize this and just concentrate on Crotons. Those of you that have met and socialized understand one another. Those that have been posting for a long time also "know" and understand one another. So when new members and personalities enter the mix, it is always better for everyone to recognize the importance of refraining from "stirring the pot."

    As Dave said - "over and forgotten" would be good. :)
     
  40. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    And I should add........

    I can't read everything all the time. I may miss some things. The little red exclamation point in a small box at the top right of every post is a way for you to report anything to me you think is inappropriate. Just click on it and report it to me.
     

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