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The confusing crotons - part 1

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Crazy for Crotons, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Sunray - narrow leaf dominated by the deep, brilliant mustard yellow veining. The plant has deep light green petioles.
    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Weismanii - narrow leaf with an occasional bump or thumb-like protrusion along one side of the leaf. The leaf in the foreground, pointing towards the left side of the lense has this feature. The plant is more cream colored than yellow and has more light spotting and blotching instead of distinct veining.
    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Edwin T. Meredith - another narrow leaved, mustard yellow variety with veining a bit less distinct than Sunray but no blotching or spotting like Weismanii. The dead giveaway here is the red petioles.
    [​IMG][/IMG]

    C. I. Craigin - This is a cream colored, narrow leaved plant with a distinct wide blotching along the midrib.
    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  2. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Rick Leitner's mystery - this is a poor specimen compared to Rick's but at least you'll get the idea. The leaves have a nice soft yellow or cream color like Weismanii but has the veining and red petioles of Edwin T. Meredith.
    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  3. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Great pictures, and yes, it's very confusing sometimes.


    Jeff
     
  4. TikiRick

    TikiRick Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL Zone 10b
    Now I am even more confused, Ray!
     
  5. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    I never even heard of Edwin T. Meredith. But, that's nothing new in this plant group.....



    Jeff
     
  6. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Jeff, I'm not certain but think it's in the old book.
     
  7. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    The one you're calling Edwin T Meredith was given to me as Yellow Pride of Winter Haven by David McLean. Here are two shots of it. You can see the red petiole quite clearly in the bottom one.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,592
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Got several of those Edward Merediths at a meeting some years ago at USF. The donor thought they were Pride of WinterHaven or something a lot like it. The leaves are wider and firmer than those on another 'Pride of Winter Haven' in the yard. At any rate, it does quite well in almost full sun.

    Accodring to a Bob Alonzo story, the orginal PofWH was found in a cemetary in Winter Haven.
     
  9. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    I just checked and the Ed Meredith description is in the old book.
     
  10. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Did all these cultivars on the west coast survive. I am not so sure they are found over here. Maybe in Ricky's garden? :confused:
     
  11. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Lots of defoliated crotons here but only one or two casualties thus far. If you think they were hard to differentiate then......
     
  12. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Ed Meredith held every single leaf. One of the few that did. I'm still losing leaves daily. Glad I'm getting out of here on Saturday for vacation.
     
  13. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Yeah it's pretty #&%@# depressing. At least most crotons will come back. Palms are another story. I'd be more optimistic but think we're slipping into a cold period and this year was just the primer for what's coming the next few years. I'm ordering my conifer and holly seeds now. Over and major out!
     
  14. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    Ray, Add some Ti plants. The Ti plants I have made it thru the cold great. I will be adding more of them this year. I will wait for adding new Crotons, I will have to do a dead body count first. Looks as 50% of the Crotons are dead.
     
  15. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    They just look dead Scott. Rub the bare sticks and I'll bet they are green somewhere down the stem. The 3 or 4 Ti's I have planted out did do very well by comparison.
     
  16. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,592
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Edwin Meredith with no canop[y got zapped by frost; 90% defoliation. EM under canopy got nailed by the cold and wind but suffered about20% leaf drop. Leaves still dropping on many others but rate of loss has slowed. (less leaves to lose...). Lots of green wood under the mess, and even a few buds popping.
     
  17. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    So this would be a Weismanii? This was taken today so excuse the sparse foliage. It only lost about a third, from the cold. Randy
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Excellent question Randy. I must defer to our West Coast brethern with discerning eyes on this I.D. :confused:
     
  19. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b

    Randy - according to Dr. Frank Brown's book from 1960, this cultivar was very rare then. It is interesting if anyone is around who could I.D. a Weismanii? :confused:
     
  20. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Bump for Randy - I think it is spelled "Weismanii ". This is the thread we talked about yesterday.

    Best regards,

    Ron.
     
  21. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Weismanii has a thumb-like bump or protrusion on some leaves about halfway down the leaf.

    FYI, Rick Leitner's plant and Sunray are the rarest of the bunch here. I'll have two small Sunray for the December meeting holiday auction.
     
  22. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Is Sunray that rare?
     
  23. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    You're the only person I've encountered with that plant. The other plants you see here and there in other gardens.
     
  24. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    This one is worth bumping.

    Jeff, please find your Sunray. Mine came from you.
     
  25. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    So this one would be Sunray? :cool:
     

    Attached Files:

  26. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    No Randy. The red petioles scream Edwin T. Meredith all the way.

    Sunray has no red in the leaves or petioles.
     
  27. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Thanks Ray, I'll add this to my misnamed list. I get one right yet:rolleyes:
     
  28. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Randy - Judy Glock came by last Saturday. She checked out the Weismanii that you gave me. She confirmed that it was the real deal pointing out the tell tale "thumb" on the leaves.

    Thanks again for giving me such a rare croton! :cool: Thought you would like to know that your plants are true Weismanii.
     
  29. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    I'm bringing a 3 gal for the auction:p
     
  30. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Jeff, have you found your Sunray? It's becoming rare as hen's teeth.
     
  31. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ray,

    It seems to still be a mystery. I believe I went out and looked at the plant in question awhile ago and it had red petioles. Sooo, I'm at a loss for words. I'm beginning to think that maybe I don't have this plant anymore.
     
  32. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    This is Sunray grown in deep shade. There are 2 of them, originally bought from Jeff as "Cardinal", which they are not. Based on the photos on page 26 and the descriptions on this thread, I believe this is the correct ID. I'm going to chop a piece off this in the Spring and move it into the sun.
     

    Attached Files:

  33. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    I'm not sure Ricky. The right hand photo has some pink in the midribs. Sunray has no red or pink anywhere. It's yellow and green through and through.
     
  34. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Ray - Is the pink/red a result of the deep shade, perhaps? The one in the book appears to be in full sun as evidenced by the colors of the Stoplight next to it.
     
  35. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    I don't think so Ricky. In shade, it just turns mostly green with a yellow midrib.
     
  36. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Ah, so we have another mystery Croton. I wonder if this is Sargent Major Flipdoodle?
     

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