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Thai croton

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Central Floridave, Sep 10, 2010.

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  1. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    483
  2. Borgy230

    Borgy230 Active Member

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    Location:
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    I contacted them a while ago, tried to see if I can import some plants directly, or some other items I import through work with them. Didnt seem like much of a problem, but everything was grafted, had small amount of roots, didnt seem like they would last a week long trip, so I didnt order
     
  3. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    4,816
    Dave, I was looking at that site the other day.I was in dream land. I saw this one on another internet site for 14.99 not bad. But the shipping cost is 30.00:eek:
     

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  4. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    I don't think you are allowed to by plants and have them imported with out some kind of license. Is that true?

    I'm surprised we don't see more of the Thai variety in stores. Twist-n-point is the only one I can think of that is readily available.
     
  5. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

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    1,592
    Location:
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    Swadi all, Most Thai varities are not that easy to grow except for the common ones we routinely see. I purchased about 8-10 a few years ago from a gentleman in the Miami area.
    Most had difficulty growing out of the coir dust rooting medium and never did establish a good root system. Most are not very cool much less cold tolerant. Central FL does not have the same climate as Bangkok. Most seem to like bright light to full sun and very high humidty - year 'round. Nevertheless, about six made it through the winter - some with little apparent damage and others with total defoliation and a slow recovery. I just got tired of expensive terminal experiments.
    Has anyone ever seen a large (1 meter) or taller Thai croton (other than the common stuff)? Unlikely other than in Thailand. All one ever sees are the nice, attractive, and expensive little plants.
     
  6. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    483
    White Elephant Palms grow great for me. They are from Thailand. I think the thai variety are mostly indoor/low light plants and they look like they really cater to them like bonzai.

    I never listen to advice when they say things don't grow here. I like learning the hard way! All my croton survived this past freezing winter. If I were to get a hold on some of these variety I would plant them in a very sheltered area, like near the 5 White Elephant palms I have growing!

    I have a 6 foot tall Twist-n-Point. It has grown real slow, in deep shade and barely ever watered. But, it is growing and looks pretty. It would be interesting for me to try them. But, no source for them...
     
  7. Sergey

    Sergey Active Member

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    282
    Location:
    Siberia, Russia
    Really, one part of Thai crotons is vital, grows rapidly and develops good root system (The King of Siam, some round leaves cultivars). Others are indeed not that easy to grow. Some of them become very bright in full sun that causes their slow growth and defoliation. They have to be grafted and grown in moderate light. Unfortunately, they are often the most outstanding and extraordinary cultivars. I guess that the superior Thai hybrids are polyploids. So dwarfness and lack of vitality is a result of it. They are not supposed ever to become tall trees.

    The curious thing is that Thai hybrids are not widely spread in Thailand. And if you met them they are always grown as potted plants. A good sign that the majority of them demand extra attention.
     
  8. Plant Nut

    Plant Nut Active Member

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    114
    Sergey: I found your post very interesting. Maybe that will help cool my desire for some of those gorgeous Thai crotons, I see in pictures. I have imported some of the Thai ones, with various degrees of success.

    Phil:
    Could you please reveal the name of the gentleman in Miami that sold you Thai crotons? It certainly would be interesting to hear how he is doing with them now. I was surprised to hear you saved 6 out of 8 or 10 that you bought from him. I think that is pretty darn good, considering the bitter cold weather we had, in spurts.
     
  9. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

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    1,592
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    The gentleman from Miami was David _M ??___. (not Mclean) I was told he sold his home and moved shortly after. Not sure if he is even alive. Some of the ones that made it came from other nurseries on the east coast of FL, one of which was in Boynton Beach. They usually had them cooking out in an open field - and they looked great. Found out today that it is now a condo or apartments.
     
  10. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

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    1,592
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    David Hickman was the gentleman
     
  11. Plant Nut

    Plant Nut Active Member

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    Phil: I remember Dave Hickman. He got his Thai crotons shortly after I got mine. I never went to his place. I only saw him at plant shows. Years ago, I bought a few palms from him. I remember him telling me he was married to his palms so, I was surprised when he went gung-ho for Thai crotons. Anyway, the last time I talked with him, the Croton Idea had fizzled, It didn't last long. He sold them and was trying to collect the money. I haven't seen him selling at any shows since then.
     
  12. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    I had to look up polyploids. New word for me!

    polyploid (pl-ploid)
    Having more than two complete sets of chromosomes. Many plants that are polyploid, such as dandelions, are sterile but can reproduce by apomixis or other asexual means. Other polyploid plants are fertile. For example, durum wheat (Triticum turgidum durum), which is used to make pasta, is tetraploid (it has four sets of chromosomes), while bread wheat (Triticum aestivum) is hexaploid (six sets of chromosomes). Polyploid plants, if viable, are often larger or more productive than diploid plants, and plant breeders often deliberately produce such plants by crossing species or other means. In the animal kingdom, polyploidy is abnormal and often fatal.
     
  13. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    David got bit by the "Croton Bug", all along while growing and selling his palms. From what I remember, he only dabbled with the Thai hybrids shortly and then got out of them. Probably because he saw the handwriting on the wall. He moved out the area, and has not been seen or heard of for many, many years now.
     
  14. Sergey

    Sergey Active Member

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    282
    Location:
    Siberia, Russia
    Under the influence of high/low temperature, colchicine, radiation etc. mutated sports/seeds/ cells can be got. They can show different signs of polyploidy – dwarfness, giantism, abnormal leaves’ forms as well as polypetalous flowers. Non-chlorophyll chimaeras can appear. Not all of them are viable enough and artificial selection is the next step.

    Some polyploidy ornamental plants require proper handling, otherwise they can lose their distinctive signs or even die.

    Many Thai cultivars possess some signs of polyploidy. Female flowers have more petals than non-Thai hybrids.
    They often have regressive sports with simple leaves as well.
     
  15. Sergey

    Sergey Active Member

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    282
    Location:
    Siberia, Russia
    I like these words.

    I think Thai cultivars can be improved via hybridization with giant and quick-growing American cultivars. I’ve got some hybrids from classical and Thai cultivars. They show good growth and have strong root system. Thai hybrids are good material for further work and hybridization.
     
  16. Sergey

    Sergey Active Member

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    282
    Location:
    Siberia, Russia
    Hybrid of “Curly Boy”+ round-leaf Thai hybrid (picture#1). At first it has simple leaves (#2), adult plants have their leaves’ shape changed (#3)
     

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  17. Sergey

    Sergey Active Member

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    Location:
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    Hybrid of “Wilma” + round-leaf Thai hybrid (picture#1). If I had more than one seed, maybe a round-shape leaf croton with more interesting colors would appear.
     

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  18. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    thanks sergey for those photos. Very interesting!
     
  19. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    I think I remember Thai Stick? :confused:
     
  20. Plant Nut

    Plant Nut Active Member

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    114
    Jeff:
    Regarding Thai crotons, what do you find is "the handwriting on the wall"? I already figured out, they are not the easiest to grow.
     
  21. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

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    2,738
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    That's pretty much what I was talking about. Most people were not having any luck with growing them in the landscape.
     
  22. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Scott - I think that one is called sum yung gi? :p
     
  23. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

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    sorry for old thread bump, but I found this from google search:




    These are the reasons that Hickman worries so much about his collection of Thai crotons. Thai crotons are distinctly different from American crotons. They tend to be smaller, with more fantastic leaf shapes. One plant might have three distinct leaf structures, from corkscrew to round. Better yet, Thai crotons have been unavailable to American collectors.

    In the past, importing Thai crotons has been difficult, if not impossible, because of laws restricting the importation of seedlings. Hickman, however, found a source that ships air-layered croton cuttings grown on sterile coconut husks from Thailand. He got his first shipment last year and is still experimenting, importing as many varieties as possible to see which, if any, will survive in South Florida. His first 400 plants died.

    There is considerable risk in his investment. Previous attempts to establish Thai crotons in the United States have failed. In the 1980s, Brown gave a large collection of imported Thai crotons to the University of Florida. All of the plants died.

    "Thai crotons don't do well in the ground here," Brown said. "They'll never be spectacular in the ground. They'll do fine in pots, but that's a whole different ballgame."

    But collectors agree that Hickman has already come farther than anyone else in recent memory in his search for an adaptable Thai croton. His plants, even those in the ground, are larger and healthier than was once assumed possible.

    With selling prices that have reached as high as $125 for a single plant, Hickman is ready to run the risk. He sells them at shows, such as Fairchild Tropical Garden's annual Ramble, and if customers contact him.

    "I've been told I have the biggest Thai croton collection in South Florida," Hickman said. "I'm gonna make a business out of this, and I'm gonna go big. You're going to hear a lot about Thai crotons in the next two or three years."


    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2004-01-16/lifestyle/0401150493_1_crotons-plant-species/2
     
  24. pocomo

    pocomo Active Member

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    Location:
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    Here are three thais' that I got from Dave maybe 6 yrs ago. I had 5 but they are difficult, these are just more vigorous, for me, than the others were. Next pic is of a seedling from some thai breeding. I have several of these types. Even bred with american crotons they are generally slow. Chris
     

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  25. pocomo

    pocomo Active Member

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    337
    Location:
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    In the last post Daves' plants are the three in the third pic.
     

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