temperature extremes

Discussion in 'PALM TREES - WHERE TROPICAL STARTS' started by colby dickinson, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. colby dickinson

    colby dickinson New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Manteca, ca. 9b
    I have extreme differences in temp. living in Manteca, ca. 95336 zone 9b. I have two Dragon Trees (Drago) from the Canary Islands and they are approximately 15 years old standing between 4' and 5'. They were damaged by the frost and I did cover them with burlap and tarps as well as wrapped the trunks. I just moved here in summer time and the temps in summer are triple digit, yet winter time lows can be in the 20's. I have a large potted bottle palm that is in doors but it is too big and fronds are hitting the ceiling. I want to put outside under my covered patio with a space heater and heat light. Any suggestions for protecting palms from frost damage is greatly appreciated. Thank you. By the way my garden consists of 2 Aloe Bainseii's (both severly damaged and cut down to half their size) 2 Dragon trees (one I dug out of ground and potted it so I can move indoors if severe cold persists) 2 Sago Palms no damage whatsoever. 2 King Palms no damage yet, 1 Bismarckia Nobilis no damage yet, and 2 Butia Palms (Pindo Palm) no damage yet. Any ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
     
  2. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    I'm guessing your bottle palm is not really a palm - but what is known as Bucarnea - you can Google it. And your Sago Palms are not really palms either :) - They are a type of cycad - Cycas revoluta. But both are relatively hardy, and if good size should survive even outdoors if your King Palm is surviving. I would think the King Palm would be the least hardy of the three.

    As to protection, there are as many schemes and inventions as there are designers - ranging from Christmas lights on the trunk and fronds, to actually structures, to bubble wrap and blankets. In critical situations, it is good to keep in mind that it is the center of the crown (or meristem) that must be kept from freezing. The leaves can be burned, but if the meristem is alive, the palm should recover when spring and summer arrive.

    Another trick is to use a fungicide and keep the crown area dry after you have suffered a bad cold event resulting in damage. This is when rot resulting from fungus and molds can set in on the damaged tissue.
     
  3. colby dickinson

    colby dickinson New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Manteca, ca. 9b
    Thanks for the wonderful insight, I realize some people have to be contrary to others so I will be precise with my post using scientific and genus names for my collection of exotic plants and palms. Yes my "bottle palm" is a Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis it is not a "pony tail palm" as I do have 2 Beaucarnea Recurvatas, and yes im fully aware that "sago palms" are Cycas Revolutas but thank you for the insight Dean. I am fully aware of what I own and what micro-climates best serve my collection, because I do care about the health, color and curve of my palms and cycads and agaves I research all my plants. The problem I encountered had to do with job relocation. I moved from San Diego California to Northern California and all my plants were thriving in San Diego. Now the temps are below freezing in the winter and many of my plants are being re-potted and moved into house and garage. I value my plants Dean and your naïve comment can be a result of too much water on your brain Mahalo Bra
     
  4. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Yes Colby - latin names and pics are very important because you would be surprised how often things are misnamed. Even when a latin name is given with no pic. an identification can ofter be in error. H. langenicaluis are not usually available, so "when I hear hoofbeats, I think of horses not zebras." And they are often confused with H. verschefelltia, a much more forgiving palm.

    H. langenicaluis is a very tropical palm and is almost impossible to grow outside even in SoCal. So you will really have to baby it where you are in order to have it look nice.
     
  5. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Colby - I can attest to Dean's comments as to the cold tolerance of Hyophorbe lagenicaulis. Being located in Southern Florida, here have been my observations regarding this species. They do not appreciate extended periods of time in the low 40's F. Frost will cause serious leaf burn. It can recover, but may not replace all the leaves in a single growing season for you. Extrapolate that over several cold seasons - your palm will probably start to "pencil point" and eventually succumb to the lack of carbohydrates produced from the stunted leaves.

    In South Florida, we get cold fronts that usually are not long lasting. After the fronts have passed, generally we warm up rather quickly into the 60's to 70's range. Hyophorbe lagenicaulis can thrive in such conditions. The winter of 2010 was an anomaly type cold season. We went days with the temperatures staying in the 40's. A couple of light frosts mixed in and you could see the demise of many field grown specimens. Zone 9b may be pushing that species no matter how you acclimate it in my opinion.

    Have you ever considered trying a Beccariophoenix alfredii? It would love your climate and would grow into a very lush robust tropical looking palm. :)
     
  6. edric

    edric Active Member

    Messages:
    768
    Location:
    Oak Hill Florida
    Hi Colby, these guys really know what they're talking about, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, will not survive temps. below 29 degrees F. give the tree away to someone who lives south of you. Dean was not being 'condescending', most of the 'newbies' we get here on this forum, are very inexperienced with palm terminology in general, including latin names, which the pronunciation of, has been a problem for even the most seasoned grower, Dean is the last one on earth to be sarcastic, or lose track of his diplomacy, I wish I could say the same for myself, Ed
     
  7. colby dickinson

    colby dickinson New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Manteca, ca. 9b
    Thanks for responding, yes im going to make it work in Manteca, Ca. My house in winter time will start to look like a tropical oasis. My concern with Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis is the size of my tree. I am considering enclosing my patio outside, adding sky lights and a space heater for next winter. The palm stands approximately 6.5" and it will need more room to grow. The winter temps here are improving high 30's during nighttime to high 60's in daytime. In no way would I "give" this palm away as it is part of my family. If you know any type of outdoor lighting that works best ie... flurescents I will install for next winter thanks everyone
     

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  8. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Colby,


    These guys are some of the best when talking palms. Good advice. And love that look of it inside! Good luck with it.

    Jeff
     
  9. colby dickinson

    colby dickinson New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Manteca, ca. 9b
    OK I will give it away after owning it for 8 years hahahaha joker!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. colby dickinson

    colby dickinson New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Manteca, ca. 9b
    Thank you glad someone appreciates the struggles some of us go through when we don't live in a tropical environment. I have owned some of my palms and cycads for 18 years and I have moved 5 times I need two moving trucks one for me and one for all my babies again thanks and best of luck to you
    Colby
     
  11. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Wow Colby - I'm impressed, that is a very robust looking Bottle Palm.

    If you are determined to plant it, here is what I would do. Position it in the Southern area of your garden. These are sun lovers and will need the winter sun. Then mount 2" EMT (Electrical Metal Tubing) in Concrete in the ground in an octagonal layout. Purchase 10 ft. lengths of 1.5 EMT for posts that can slide down into the 2" EMT. You will need to establish some kind of bracing between the 1.5" EMT to steady it. Acquire a clear heavy duty vinyl cover and bungee it around he posts. Put a space heater under it and your palm should be OK.

    As it gets taller, you can add a coupling to the 1.5" EMT and extend the posts. The 2"EMT post holes need to be spaced so that the leaves will never come in contact with the vinyl. You should also put caps over 2" EMT holes when not in use to prevent debris build up. The octagon shape will make your winter temporary structure much more wing resistant. Fortunate for you, this palm slows down a bit over time. Its not a very tall palm, 12 ft. of trunk is a very old specimen.

    You sound like someone who would put forth the effort to make this happen. :)
     

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