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Syagrus

Discussion in 'PALM TREES - WHERE TROPICAL STARTS' started by ScotTi, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    I really have not paid attention to this palm over the years, but I was working around this palm last week and noticed something strange. The seed look diffrent from the other S.romanzoffiana I have. Pic #1 seed with fruit Pic#2 cleaned seed (L) compared with another S. rom seed (R) Pic #3 base of palm with mans large size Croc. Pic #4 pushing out new spathe.
     

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  2. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    and best shot I can get of the frond... and another pic of seed looking just like little Coconuts.
     

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  3. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Scott,

    I could be way off base, but are you aware of the palm Syagrus pseudococcus? Named for, I would assume, seeds resembling coconuts.

    Take a look in Palmpedia. There is a real clear Hi-Res photo there of green seed that you may be able to compare with yours.

    What do you think?
    S. pseudococcus
     
  4. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    I was thinking the same, but what I have read S.pseudococcus has a broad base. I am thinking it may be a hybrid of S.pseudococos, with S. romanzoffiana. I opened all the seed and they are hollow, but then the seed are old. I will be watching the flowering and seed close this year. I will try to cross a Butia with pollen from it this year also.
     
  5. palmnerd

    palmnerd Well-Known Member

    Another shot in the dark here Scott. You also have a multiheaded S. romanzofiana. Have these palms been routinely exposed to any of the 2,4,d acid group herbicides. Maybe fallout from nearby spraying? or even hurricane Charley? The reason I ask is the new spathe looks mechanically deformed, maybe as a result of nute issues or chemical stunting storm damage etc.. The sterile seed may suggest a hybrid though.... Hmm? Perhaps post new flower and a broad perspective of this plant. I am a Syagrus nut and am interested in the mystery here. An interesting related aside; The Syagrus romanzofiana used to be called Cocos plumosa, then Arecestrum romanofianum\a? and finally dissolved to Syagrus. The point being I guess is that early botanists were misled by the resemblance to Cocos.
     
  6. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    The palms have not had any herbicide spraying. The spathe looks funky in the picture,but that is due to spathe was opening and had split from the top. No Charley damage here.
     
  7. palmnerd

    palmnerd Well-Known Member

    I'm glad there was no Charley your way a few years back. We felt that one all the way over here. I lost a queen palm to Jean in '05 (thank you Jean). We actually had a lot of double header queens come from the twin hurricanes of '05. The reason I mentioned the herbicide is that in an article published in the journal of
    Palms last year, the author noted the leaning crown syndrome, multiheaded forms among other things as being caused be some of the selective herbicides. If someone in your immediate area has a practice of using those things maybe that could have an impact on your trees. I went out and looked at my young pseudococcos, it is too young to compare to an adult rom.. Again I am just offering some more far fetched theories as to the possible variation in habit or form of the tree you posted. If you're ever motivated take some more pics of this tree. Good growing to you! If you ever head over to Vero let me know and I'll give you some locations to check out. -Justin P.S. I just took a photo tour of your property. I can assume you don't have to worry about overspray issues. Thats a big spread! Nice pics. Was this mystery Syagrus in the spread?
     
  8. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,816
    Justin, The mystery Syagrus is not in any of the pics due to its growing location. A total picture of this palm is impossible. I was looking at the female flowers now open on the palm and they look larger than those on the other S.rom.. Scott
     
  9. palmnerd

    palmnerd Well-Known Member

    Keep me posted this summer Scott. I am curious to know if its throwing viable seed. Most of our inter-Syagrus hybrids are self sterile. And from what I've read they can only be outbred to another species or backcrossed to the parent species. And if they are viable and you think they are not roms then I would offer to swap with you. If your in CFPACS perhaps we can exchange stuff at one of the late year meetings. Thanks for taking the time to share this info with me. As I mentioned before I am into Syagrus. I think I now have sixteen species going on around here. We'll stay in touch! -Justin
     

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