Something has been bothering me ...

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Moose, Mar 21, 2015.

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  1. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    An unknown individual(s) trespassed the Moose Land and absconded with Pam Kiefert branches. The property has signage at all gates "no trespassing" so it may be construed this was deliberate.

    There are only 5 individuals who are legitimate owners of my cultivar Pam Kiefert.

    Lamar - acquired at the auction at Flamingo Gardens.
    Marie Nock - was given the first cutting to make sure it was established some place else in case something happened to the sport.
    Judy Glock - acquired in a trade for an Exotica
    Keith Hanks - also acquired in a trade
    George Zammas - acquired at the last auction.

    If you are offered a Pam Kiefert by someone other then the individuals mentioned above, then they have acquired it by unsavory means. Knowing the above folks, I have much certainty they would not sell a vegetative clone of Pam Kiefert, but would prefer to trade. The person(s) who helped themselves to my plant more then likely did it for pure greed, as Pam Kiefert is a sought after croton. What makes it even worse, they did not take a cutting but ripped down on the branches, causing damage to the main stem. Plus, by not taking a cutting, that branch could not sprout new growth.

    pam ripped.JPG

    At first I was furious that somone would be so bold and greedy. Settling down, now I'm just very perturbed. Since I don't have a mist house, the branches needed to be long to support an air layer plus enough of a remaining stem length that new shoots could form. It was ready for air layers but I wanted it to look nice for the garden tour. The plans were to apply the air layers right after. There were only 6 branches of Pam Kiefert so only two air layers were to be made, allowing 66 % of the foliage to remain to maintain optimal growth. This is further disturbing as I have had many requests for this croton. Many friends have been patiently waiting. Now their wait will probably be delayed for another year. Still have some feelings like I have been violated. :mad:
     
  2. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    By ripping such a long stem, I am also certain that the rip off artist will try and cut them into sticks for further propagation. A police report was made and the detective is a friend of mine. If you have knowledge of a Pam Kiefert whereabouts, please send me a PM. The culprit will be arrested for trespassing and petty theft if caught.

    The person(s) may very well name the croton to something other then Pam Kiefert. Its a beautiful croton that any collector would want whatever the name.

    So you know what Pam looks like, this is my back up plant that gets only morning sun and stays shaded the remainder of the day.

    Pam shade.JPG

    This is the Pam Kiefert in the ground that got raped. Gets mid=day to afternoon sunlight so you can see the different looks caused by different the sun exposure.

    pam sun.JPG
     
  3. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Correction, a Pam Kiefert was also traded to Jose. So there are 6 legitimate Pam Kiefert owners.
     
  4. kwmarko

    kwmarko Active Member

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    key west
    Mornin Ron... sorry to hear... such a feeling of violation... have it on my double corner lot ...unfenced... all the time... fruit trees.... anything visible from sidewalk... gosh.... sometimes think.. this world these days....
    Isn't there a song out these days.... shake it off shake it off... ????
     
  5. kwmarko

    kwmarko Active Member

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    key west
    Was taking a couple a pictures just yesterday when some clouds were going by.... and was thinking of the orange supreme thread, But Anyhow... gonna post em here...pops yard and capt gilbert cutler... (actually was hesitant... cuz they need fertilizer, and a fifty dollar hole.......) but I will put them out there anyway....... 20150320_150820.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    annafl likes this.
  6. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Oh, Ron, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can't understand what would possess someone to do that. Thank goodness you have a spare and that the original still looks great. I'm sure it will fill out in no time, but the hurt and suspicion never goes away.
     
  7. Kingdavid

    Kingdavid Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,151
    Location:
    st lucie co
    Im sure in time the Perp will slip up . KARMAs a B......!
     
    ScotTi likes this.
  8. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Hey, Mark, I saw your beauties and forgot to comment on them. Great plants!
     
  9. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Ron, What a beautiful plant. It is crazy the things people will do to get something they want and don't have available to them. I can't even imagine going into someone's garden without permission, never mind mangling a prized plant just to get some cuttings. Was that your rarest cultivar? It is not one I have heard of before, but then again I don't have the knowledge base that many of the people on the forum have. I hope they did not do any other damage and that the Pam Kiefert recovers fully. I am glad they did not take the other Pam in the pot. Has this been a problem in the past or is this the first time someone has invaded your gardens?
    I don't have fences around my property, so have worried at times that I would come out and find something gone. Luckily the worst I have had was people picking fruit off of my tropical fruit trees and had someone plow into one of my gardens with a golf cart while I was away (found out from a neighbor that the golf cart sat there overnight and was gone in the morning). They flattened several plants including a large croton, but all have recovered. I still wonder who it was every time I see someone drive by in a golf cart. I don't think I have any plants that would be as rare and valuable, but it is still really unsettling when someone invades your space and damages what you have worked so hard to create.
     
  10. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Mark - the croton Pam Kiefert is a sport I found on a Mrs. Snyder Disraeli. It looked unusual at first, then over time it became a real looker. It's named to honor my wife, Pam. Not my rarest, but it has sentimental value. Its not particularly fast and there are croton fans that are patiently awaiting to acquire one. Those are the folks that have had a disservice more then I, at least I have two. Just needed to air my disappointment and angst so I can move on.
     
  11. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Sorry to read this Ron. Was the Pam Kiefert the only Croton to suffer this attack?
     
  12. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    This is bad. They were who you know and who have been in your garden. When hundreds of these plants will be offered for sale under the different name it will be hard to prove the origin.
    ...but there is an another version: the online stealing. I've been a victim and a witness of so many! Large companies with a lot of money are doing that all the time to the small crafters and designers.
    This forum should be private since there are much less posters than viewers. Please, believe me: I learned the hard way.
     
  13. Jerry Shilling

    Jerry Shilling Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Summerland Key, FL zone 11
    Interesting post Pix - but the thief who did this hates our forum and would love for us to go private.

    You would assume that the thief is a collector/croton head and knows that this plant is rare and therefore valuable...but to whom? It's only valuable to other croton collectors...and is it that valuable? Not really.

    No croton collector would treat a plant like that. This was personal Ron. Whoever did this wanted to get in your head...very much like this idiot "johnnyd" who without provocation, attempted to mock you on your "garden tour" thread.

    My 2 cents.
     
    Kingdavid likes this.
  14. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ron.....I'm very sorry to hear that someone has stolen from you. There's nothing worst in my opinion. Hopefully in due time and with everyone on the lookout, maybe we can find the person who was behind this. Pretty damn sad.....
     
  15. junglegal

    junglegal Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    3,135
    Location:
    St. Pete FL
    What a scumbag thing to do. The worst thing is that person likely lurks here. Sorry Moose, I'd be highly P.O.'d too.
     
  16. koki

    koki Active Member

    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    pine island, fl
    Crime doesn't pay. The perp will eventually see this or maybe worse. People are generous with plants, it only takes patience to get what you like. Video cameras are the way of the future, so fortunately this kind of petty theft will soon have more nails in the coffin.
     
  17. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Unfortunate;y I've been hit again. This time Arthur Howe was the victim. It was fine Saturday morning when it was watered. Today while splashing its leaves I noticed Arthur looking much smaller. Same MO, branch was snapped back to the main stem, no cutting taken to allow regeneration of new branches. Of course they helped themselves to the largest most robust branch with multiple heads. You can see it is a fresh "harvest".

    Again.JPG

    This was a gift from Marie. It had been forgotten, tucked way in the back, crowded out by a bunch of better growers in her collection. It had long stretched stems and small leaves. Due to Arthur Howe's slow growth, it would have taken much time to get it looking good again. Marie asked if I would like to have it as a reclamation project, which I gladly accepted. Its been three years invested in this plant with proper pruning and loving care for Arthur to return to a nice looking croton.

    Now some unscrupulous person has returned to molest another rare croton. Starting to think it may be a croton broker that is using my collection to make money or a very unscrupulous collector. Seems they don't want to acquire plants like the rest of us by buying and trading. Expending a lot of time trying to spruce up the crotons for everyone to enjoy during the upcoming Garden Tour. Sure is frustrating having this thief hacking up some of my plants before you guys get to see them. I walked off how far the culprit had to enter my gate to molest both Pam and Arthur. It was 28 steps to Pam, 16 to Arthur. Cannot construe any scenario how this could have been an accident. For the Non Croton eyed folks who simply think Oh how pretty, there are a bunch of plants in the easement they could hit, of course they are all fairly common. Must be pulling up, snap, grab and drive off in less a minute. Whoever you are, I hope you die a very long painful death. Sorry, but that is how I'm feeling right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  18. junglegal

    junglegal Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    3,135
    Location:
    St. Pete FL
    Time for some cameras, motion light. I'd file a report too. Seems like this person may be familiar with placement of your rarities. A past visitor or someone with night vision goggles.
     
  19. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Am I the only one wondering why the thief is taking one plant at a time? Why would anyone risk coming back multiple times and only taking one plant? And why wouldn't they just take the whole plant?
     
  20. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Moose, they make simple motion activated cameras for hunters and the like - to identify where wild animals lurk. I think they even work for day and night, with infrared light/flashes. You can easily place them as desired, since they are battery powered to take a snapshot (or series of snapshots/video) when something passes by. Hunters use them to identify where game travels or is present. Just put 'em up, come back, and see if they were triggered. If so, remove the card and check it out.

    I have heard some investigators even use them to hunt for Big Foot.

    You could try Craigs List, eBay, or other second hand sellers and maybe find a cheaper used one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  21. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
  22. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I was thinking the same thing. Why are they not grabbing a bunch of plants in pots rather than mangle these plants one at a time, and wouldn't it be easier to use pruning shears to take cuttings? It is really bizarre. I never thought they would come back. If it is someone who has a passion for crotons, you would expect that they would be reading this forum and know Ron is on guard for this. Don't you need a greenhouse with a mist system to even root croton cuttings? I have not tried it (I will stick with cordylines for propagation until I learn how to air layer the crotons), but I have given cuttings from mine away and the person couldn't get them rooted. I assume it is not the easiest thing to do, so the thief needs to have some experience and be confident that they will get these to root or it would not make sense to steal them.

    I keep having a thought in the back of my mind that it could be either some type of animal or bratty kids screwing around, but why just these few rare plants. I know the damage I get is usually either from wildlife/neighbors dogs or accidental from the person who mows my lawns, but I find the remains of the damaged plant. It is just so hard to believe that someone would do this. The risk seems much higher than the reward (especially coming back). Why have they started doing this now and why just in Ron's garden? It seems like they are messing with Ron before the garden tour. I like the camera idea to solve this and stop it for good. I hope they are caught so they can be shunned from the croton community.
     
    Kingdavid likes this.
  23. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    I am not often here, and I am sorry that I didn't reply to some messages.
    I speak from my own experience. The first plant was so rare that it was easy to still all together with its name; and it was enough just to screen this forum to find it. The businesses of interest would do this. It is much faster and cheaper than to develop their own specimen.
    ...I do not know much about the other plant.
     
  24. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    The indignation that has been expressed from fellow my plant lovers has me feeling much better. To project what is in the mind of my "#1 Croton Fan", this I can not do. My inyention was not to post these occurrences, but was encouraged to do so my some I had confided in.

    Bottom line is that I am grateful I still have my plants rather then a hole in the ground. They are just plants and will grow back. Just wanted to share my crotons looking the best they could with all who are going to attend the tour. I'd be lest than honest to not admit that my ego wants all my plants looking as good as possible for those who are appreciative of these wonderful plants. Time to move on, its all in the past.

    More focused on wetting all my leaves each morning trying to ward off a potential spider mite invasion. With the dry air and lack of rain, its their time of the year.

    Happy growing to all!

    Ron :)
     
  25. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    Ron, hate to see that happen, but it does. There are only so many croton fanatics down here, and even fewer of them are thieves. They are well known, and yes, they lurk. Ask around quietly if you don't know, and keep them off your property.
     
  26. TropicalRob

    TropicalRob New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Ron..sorry to hear about the theft. Absolutely horrible.

    Time to get a big dog, motion sensor outdoor flood lamps, and security cameras with recorded history.
     
  27. Tigerlily

    Tigerlily Member

    Messages:
    3
     
  28. Tigerlily

    Tigerlily Member

    Messages:
    3
    I have a theory. . .from the look of the Arthur Howe photo where a branch was snapped off, I'll bet the thief thinks that crotons can be propagated as easily as cordylines. . . .just stick a woody stem in the ground and it'll eventually take root. Cannot tell you how many folks I run across who believe that to be so, mostly the same folks who think Crotons are FL natives. Anyway, maybe when he/she finds out propagation isn't so easy your treasures will be safe once again. Best of luck,
     

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