Red Fishbone

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by JoseLopez, Feb 20, 2013.

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  1. JoseLopez

    JoseLopez Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    008.jpg Today working in my garden i was observing the splender of the plant and i was wondering who are the parents of Red Fishbone and who named it.
     
  2. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Is Red Fishbone also known as Herringbone?
     
  3. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    677
    No. They're two different plants.
     
  4. andy

    andy Active Member

    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    north palm beach
    whats the difference,I forgot what they called this thought it was a red herringbone?
     

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  5. JoseLopez

    JoseLopez Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Andy, the difference to me is that Herringbone has bigger leaves, has more red and the shape of the leaves are oval and not ondulated. Both are still beautiful!
     
  6. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Andy - your croton shares alot of simularities to Pops Yard. But it is still small - is only going to get better looking with time. :)
     
  7. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    This is an example of the problem naming crotons. You have two very similar plants (potentially the same) with different names. The differences like leaf size and color are very much associated with growing conditions and do not necessarily constitute a new plant.
     
  8. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Pop's Yard.jpg Pop's Yard
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  9. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    of course these are all the same plant.and it has more names than that. ian's tiger, name given by jim cunningham for his son ian, and buckle your seatbelts, covergirl. the plant in the book has a sunburned middle flush, hence the unique color. above and below, red fishbone. personally, since this plant has no known history, i like jeff's name the best. that gives it some history, from a multi-generational nursery family.
     
  10. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Thanks Kurt. But.....years ago B. Frank saw this plant and could not place a name on it. I heard the name, Ian's Tiger and knew Jim when he used to sell palms. Intersting about your comment that the Cover Girl is a washed out plant ( picture in book ) and is the plant pictured above. I have a Cover Girl and it does not look like the Cover Girl from the picture in the book. BUT, I think your wrong on including the plant picture above as being the same as Herringbone. I got Herringbone from Keith years ago and their clearly different plants. Onward.....
     
  11. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    Onward through the fog, no question. The fog does lift a little when you grow nursery plants side by side. Jeff you can solve lots of these, I'd bet you have them all, just grow some cuttings on the same bench. We will know for sure one way or the other. The plant I had as ian's tiger wad ID'ed by all as red fishbone, also called herringbone. If it's the same keith I'm thinking of, he was a monster collector on the west coast, lots of his source material is separate from mine, could be different, maybe. When I bought the davis stuff, the two things bender and brown were chomping at the bit for were playboy and covergirl. Noone had them. Dr. Brown gave me detailed instructions as to where they were on the property and both he and bender were very happy to see them found and retrieved. I never propagated ian's tiger but I made as many covergirls as I could. Looking at them now, they are the same. You are probably in the best position to come up with a concrete answer, jeff, on this and others.
     
  12. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Well, you've peaked my interest. I will certainly look at this plant mentioned above and have a closer look at my Herringbone, maybe tonight when I get home. But just off the top of my head, they seem to be very different. Next time you all come through the yard, we can look these over.
     
  13. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Herringbone 1.jpg My interest is peaked as well. Here is what I have as Herringbone.

    Jeff had some Herringbone available at his sale. I checked the older leaves and it appeared that they are the same cultivar that I have as Herringbone. The origin of my plant came from Mike Woolery. It was a rooted cutting that had no ID. Jose saw my plant on a visit, he stated with certainty that it was a Herringbone. Seeing Jeff's plants at his sale made me feel that I had a real one.

    I suspect what we are calling Herringbone originated from Stan Wood.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  14. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Herringbone 2.jpg Herringbone 3.jpg Here are a couple of older leaves from my "Herringbone". My observations are that the "Herringbone" has its yellows turning pink, then a sharp pink with age. The Pop's Yard has its yellows turning into oranges, eventually into vibrant reds. The veining on "Herringbone" also appears more intricate. Pop's Yard leaves a bit narrower and elongated then Herringbone as well. This is just subjective thinking from me as my "Herringbone" is still in a container and has not obtained any substantial age.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  15. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Pops & Herringbone.jpg Here I put my "Herringbone" next to Pop's Yard. They appear different to my eye. Would be nice if Jeff could post some photos of his mature "Herringbone".

    I've tried to turn the photo upright, it is not cooperating. Sorry :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  16. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Red Fishbone.jpg To further along the "Onward through the Fog" scenario, here is a rooted cutting I also got from Mike Woolery. It is tagged as "Red Fishbone ?" Has not realized any potential yet. Guess time will tell ... :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  17. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    So here's what I have for Red Fishbone CAM00292.jpg CAM00293.jpg CAM00291.jpg CAM00294.jpg
     
  18. JoseLopez

    JoseLopez Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    041.jpg This is the Herringbone that i have. It is different than Red Fish Bone and Covergirl. Covergirl has much larger leaves and they are longer especially when its mature.
     
  19. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    I asked bob alonzo today what he knows about these plants. What you guys are calling herringbone (HB) is clearly a different plant than the red plant (RF). It looks like it has semi shoulders. Bob told me that RF was a super rare dade county plant that never made it to the west coast at all. He said bob halgrim was unaware it existed. He confirmed that there is no information at all about that plant, and that red fishbone has no more standing than almost edison. It was just a descriptive name, there was no actual evidence linking it to fishbone. All the hunting I did, I never found one. All the stock I had was two little pieces in a bag of tips jim brought me, and what remained of the davis 'covergirl'. He too, prefers jeff's name because it comes with some history, and because jeff has propagated and spread some plants around under that name.
     
  20. koki

    koki Active Member

    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    pine island, fl
    Post 4 looks like Helen Edge sometimes.
     
  21. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    A lot of good stuff to absorb here. My assumption has always been that the davis covergirl was the original plant, so anything out there came from it. It was pretty hacked up. Looking at ricky's post, I would say bender and dr. brown were mistaken, it wasn't covergirl at all. The leaf is flat on rick's plant without the twist the others all have, and somewhat wider. Jeff, your comment that dr. Brown couldn't ID pops yard makes sense, this might have been a group of plants he wasn't very familiar with. Digital pics and the ability to share them really helps. Seems to me that pops yard/ians tiger/red fishbone are one plant. The plant you guys have as herringbone is a different plant. And covergirl like rick has, is a different plant. All rare and all desirable. Great stuff
     
  22. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Helen Edge.JPG

    Helen Edge
    getting kissed my the morning sun.
     

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