1. NEW BROMELIAD FORUM
    Guest - Don't miss our new forum. Perhaps you have something to add or share with us.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Check out, join, and contribute to our Facebook Page. Help get more people to the Forum. NEW TROPISCAPE FACEBOOK GROUP
    Dismiss Notice

RAPTURE...East Coast vs West Coast

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Jeff Searle, Dec 9, 2010.

Please Help Support Our Generous Sponsors

  1. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    For some time now, two different crotons have been grown with the same name, but when side by side, are two totally different plants. My original Rapture came from Johnny S. over 10 years ago, only to be told by the "west coast" collectors that it wasn't and one of my other plants is the the real Rapture. ( One I call Red Foot ) Well,I just found one of these plants yesterday in a pot ( my only one )so I'm very pleased to say, that I will be bringing both of these plants on saturday to finally clear up this one big mystery. Hopefully, once and for all! Pictures coming, after the meeting.
     
  2. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Great news Jeff. More stuff for the auction.
     
  3. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ha-ha....I love how you slipped in that " more stuff for the auction" business.
     
  4. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Putting them in "my truck" offer still stands. :eek:

    LOL :p Ron :rolleyes:
     
  5. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA

    Yea, you just worry about showing up,ok? I got 3 Black Beauties coming over in your honor, so you have to come now.
     
  6. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Jeff, here's the plant Johnny called Rapture (Dreer #7 in the book). This is my surviving plant before the freeze.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ray,

    That's it!!! Holy S*#T !!! You mean we might actually figure this one out this weekend? This is the same plant that Johnny misnamed for me too. I'm still going to bring my plant over for everyone to look at.

    So it's now Dreer #7. And the other will be Rapture. Thanks for the great picture! And I understand, your plant has been lost?


    Jeff
     
  8. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    625
    Ray,
    Now I'm confused. This is the picture we have in the WIKI for America.
     
  9. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Oh no, here we go AGAIN!!! Your right Marie about the Wiki photo. Either way, this croton in the picture is the one I have and was growing along as Rapture. I guess the discussion will continue this saturday at the meeting.
     
  10. Borgy230

    Borgy230 Active Member

    Messages:
    326
    Location:
    Miami Beach
    If I remember correctly, there is a previous post about a few months ago about America, I think Ray actually posted the same pic as America!
     
  11. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Marie, Jeff and Rob,

    I'm confused too. The last plant I posted was identified by Bob A. as America a couple of years ago. The leaf shape and wavy margins look pretty close to the black and white image of America in Graf's book Exotica. Johnny calls the photo of Dreer #7 in the Dr. Brown's book, Rapture. I'm pretty sure it's in the amended name list Ron posted here sometime ago. The question is whether or not what we have pictured here is the same plant labeled Dreer #7 in Dr. Brown's book. We all know there are plants that are nearly identical with different names i.e. Bob Bullock and Wilma.

    Jeff, mine came through like a champ in the freeze and so did several others in my neighborhood. At one point, it must have been widely distributed by nurseries up here.

    Ray
     
  12. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    CONFIRMED UPDATE: Red Foot is not Rapture. I noticed Bob Alonso does not just visually inspect the leaves, he also touches the leaves to sense the texture and thickness as well. It was a pleasure to meet him today! :cool:
     
  13. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    I'm still confused. Was Ray's photo eventually ID'd as Ernest DeLarue ? I still don't know what a Rapture looks like ... :confused:
     
  14. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    This was tagged "Red Foot" when I got it about 4years ago. Is it?:confused: Or what is it? DSC_0096.jpg
     
  15. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ron,

    Ray's plant is not ED. rapture and Red Foot are two distinct plants. next time you come by, I can show you the differences.

    Randy, yes, your plant is Red Foot.
     
  16. JoseLopez

    JoseLopez Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    254
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Ron, The first 2 pictures are of rapture. the shape on these leaves are pointed at the end and have wavy edges. these are really big leaves compared to Ernest de la rue. the 3rd picture is Ernest de la rue , the leaves are shorter and wider and the color is more orange. When Bob Alonzo came to my house he said those were the correct names. 024.jpg 025.jpg 026.jpg
     
  17. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Jeff,

    The plant I first posted is Ernestine Delarue as identified by Jose. Thank God that plant finally got named after so much confusion.

    Keith got his "Red Foot" from Bender years ago as the real Rapture. I first saw this plant at Winter Haven's Cypress Gardens which (like Sunken Gardens in St. Pete), was somewhat of a croton "repository" decades ago. The surviving crotons there were huge and part of the original 1930's plantings. That park had an incredible croton collection for years because grove heaters were used to protect the botanical gardens during severe freezes. That said, this so called Red Foot is not a seedling but a well established, old cultivar that got this other name somewhere along the way. Lee brought this same "Red Foot" to a USF sale years ago also identified as Rapture. If I'm not mistaken, it was in Johnny's collection or Kurt Decker's. This debate is far from resolved. Maybe like other cultivars, there is more than one form.
     

Share This Page