Pappey or Congo

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Moose, Nov 9, 2011.

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  1. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    For some reason, I was under the impression that these were the same cultivar with different names. The Wiki says that Pappey is a sport from Mammie and is also known as Nancy.

    Curious as to why there are no photos of Pappey or Congo found in the Wiki. There surely has to be some photos of these cultivars available. They are not very rare. I have a cultivar that may be Pappey, but I am not all that sure now. A certain box store has Congo from time to time, just can't remember what it looks like. :confused:

    Any help here? :eek:
     
  2. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    DAVIE FL
    I believe that they are one and the same,I saw a Congo in Lowe's and it was just like my Pappey.
     
  3. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Mike - if so, you would think the Wiki would cross reference ? :confused:

    Confusion continues ... :confused:
     
  4. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Ron, You can make the changes in the Wiki yourself. It is easy, give it a try.
     
  5. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Congo....
     

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  6. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
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    Scott - I fairly certain that your plant is Pappey or Pappay, not Congo. This was identified as Congo.
     

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  7. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Ricky, You are right on that being Pappy in my post above. Now what is the diffrence between Mango and Congo?
     
  8. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Congo (from Lowes) to the left and right of a Mango (from Cleo at the USF sale).
     

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  9. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    4,851
    Congo (top pic) and the Mango...
     

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  10. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Scott - My Congo is very small and in deep shade. The Mango, on the other hand, gets heavy sun after noon. But looking at your 2 pictures, I can't see a difference.
    Left photo is Mango, right photo is Congo:
     

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  11. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    From Mercer Botanicals Inc "Congo also known as Papey" Here is the picture and looks nothing like the ones I just purchased as Congo from Lowes. I think the ones I picked up from Lowes are in fact Mango.
     

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  12. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    I think someone is playing with the names. What you have in the last post is definitely Pappay or Pappy. Congo looks nothing like that, at least the one that I have.
     
  13. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Ricky, I believe you have the real Congo here.:cool: I had posted a rather long reply but was timed out, so I will break it down in a few posts. Playing with names ...read on...
     
  14. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Fact: Lowes purchased the Croton "Congo" from Natures Way Nursery of Miami. Did the nursery make a mistake on the printing of the name on the bar code sticker or do they believe the Mango (as we know it) is Congo? Or do they really care at all about a name? I believe all they really care about is making $$. Most buyers from the mass retailers do not give a rats ash about a name anyhow.
     
  15. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Now about the Pappy named "Nancy". Fact: I purchased my Pappy (post #5) as "Nancy" from a local nursery in Oldsmar. The nursery buys wholesale from Burnette's Wholesale Nursery of Bradenton FL. ( do a search for the Burnette site and look at the names on Crotons) Burnette's sells the Pappy as "Nancy" to the local nursery guy, who then sells the plant retail with the wrong name.
     
  16. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    When googling Pappy or Pappey or Congo with croton or codiaeum there are many more results with Congo then there are with Pappy/Pappey which makes me think that Congo is probably the more legitimate name for this Mammy sport

    IMG_8226a.jpg

    Also, when googling books for these names, no results are found for Pappy or Pappey, while "croton congo" is published in an Australian journal for registering plant varieties:
    http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&....,cf.osb&fp=7fa83826c5013db3&biw=1280&bih=899
    Unfortunately I can no longer access these publications like we could when discussing 'Wilma' last year...
    http://www.palmpedia.net/forum/showthread.php?1913-Wilma&highlight=wilma

    A long accepted method/requirement for establishing a new cultivar or species is to publish it somewhere, and 'Congo' has at least been published...

    The other problem that arises here is that in all probability someone has named an entirely different croton 'Congo' as evidenced by Ricky's plant...
    It is also likely that this same 'Mammy' sport has other names applied by other folks somewhere around the world...

    This is a perfect example of why we need a Codiaeum registry. I'm still working on getting the application and guidelines from the ISHS (International Society for Horticultural Science) in Belgium for establishing an ICRA (International Cultivar Registration Authority) for Codiaeum, and I think our croton wiki will be a good place to set it up...
     

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