Overcast day

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by annafl, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    We've had several overcast days and I went outside with my camera to shoot some of my young'uns. I thought I'd give Ron and Randy an opportunity to name some of my crotons since they were so nice to give me several opportunities in the past:rolleyes:. Anyone else that wants to is welcome to also:). I realize most of my plants are small. Numbers 6 and 7 are the same plant.
     

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    donroberth likes this.
  2. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    A few more just to reciprocate fairly:p.
     

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    Kingdavid and donroberth like this.
  3. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Beautiful fotos Ann...shooting fotos on an overcast day pays off. The CROTON colors are more true than with a flash. By the way...what a stunning and peaceful pond you have in your garden!!! I enjoyed your pix...keep on shooting on cloudy days or in open shade areas whenever possible. :D
     
  4. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    DAVIE FL
    Wow Anna,your Stoplight is spectacular !! Your Captain Gilbert is looking great also :)

     
  5. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks, Robertico! The pond is just a lined 45-50 foot pond we put in 8 years ago, but its really become almost naturalized, and a source of joy for us. All kinds of creatures use it for different purposes.

    Thanks, Mike! I'm really proud of that Stoplight. When I got it about a year and a half to two, it was mostly green and black. It now puts out incredible color and I love going past it. The Captain has been slow to put out leaves this year, but now seems to be waking up a bit.

    Ana
     
  6. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    677
    Ana, your plants look like you're keeping them really happy. Beautiful!
     
  7. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    DAVIE FL
    Yes that is a great plant.When I lived at my old house in Davie.No matter how many "rare" crotons that I had in my yard whenever newbies came over they always said my Stoplight was their favorite plant in the yard.In my opinion, it is the best croton out there when it is in good color.





     
  8. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Pretty impressive, Anna. It's really showing!
     
  9. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,952
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Post #1

    Photo #1 General Lawrence
    Photo #2 Carmen Christian
    Photo #3 Lyratum
    Photo #4 difficult to discern leaf size, plant appears rather young. If I have to guess, Gonzalez that was exposed to some very bright sun at some point.
    Photo #5 W. F. Dreer?
    Photo #6 & 7 Norman Rockwell
    Photo #8 A huge Claude Lorraine
    Photo #9 Mrs. Iceton
    Photo #10 Big Stoplight

    Post #2

    Photo #1 Royal Flush
    Photo #2 Not enough detail, Buddy perhaps?
    Photo #3 Duke of Windsor
    Photo #4 Congo
    Photo #5 Nervia
    Photo #6 Yet to color up Tiger Eye or Embassy
    Photo #7 Pond w/ Copernicia macroglossa (left), Kentiopsis olivformis (right)
    Photo #8 Davis #1
    Photo #9 Captain Gilbert Cutler
    Photo #10 just not enough there to make a positive ID. Looks like it wants to become a semi oak leaf shape. :confused:
     
  10. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    :confused:

    Nice plants Ana. :cool: I love your lake. How'd we do?
     
  11. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    Anna, your crotons look great, and your pond area really had me impressed. Love that C. macroglossa in the background! Hopefully someday I'll get to visit your property and see all that is has to offer. Thanks for the pics.
     
  12. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks so much, Marie, Jeff and Randy! My little ones are coming along.

    Here's the names:

    1-Mons Florin
    2-Sturrock's Pink Veitchii
    3-Unknown from Phil, but I saw one I thought was the same at the Searle sale-Earl of Derby? What do you all think? Jeff do you know?
    4-Applause
    5-Confetti
    6-7Unknown from Keith-I love this little plant. It gives good color year round. I think the leaf shape and the mature leaves look close to Exeter or Norwood Beauty? It is in loads of sun and takes it well. Anyone else have any ideas? Sorry I did not put some scale in the photo. I think the leaves are shorter and narrower than Norman Rockwell, but I've never seen a NR so I don't know for sure. I think mine's leaves measure 6-8 inches to the tip without the petiole.
    8-Claude Lorraine-Been in the ground 7-8 years. My first croton on this property and has never balked at any winter-didn't hardly drop a leaf in winter of 2010. This plant was my inspiration to look for more crotons and then I found all of you!
    9-Clump of Mrs. Iceton. Still one of my favorites
    10-My grateful Stoplight
    1-Unknown- This plant also gives me great color. Was bought as a Gloriosa. I think it resembles Royal Flush, but it does seem a little more veined. Anyone else have other ideas?
    2-Buddy
    3-General Marshall
    4-Congo
    5-Nervia
    6-Embassy
    7-Yes to palms!
    8-Unknown- Got this as Moonglow a bit over a year ago I think. It was full of scale and I made the mistake of treating it with oil. Completely defoliated. Is coming back, but I think it's different than my Davis 1. Petioles were always shorter and have some pink. Texture of the leaves is quite a bit thicker. I found it at an old nursery that is not very reliable with names.
    9-Captain Gilbert Cutler
    10-Victory- old Cleo. ID'd by Bob Alonzo at the Glock's meeting


    Hey, thanks for being good sports, Ron and Randy. You did well considering there were four unknowns in there!
     
  13. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Hi Ann...the CROTON (your post #1 foto #3), is a “dead-ringer” for PHILADELPHIA as described in the CHRISTIAN PAPERS below. The PHILADELPHIAS I normally run into in my “wanderings in-country” will also often display a reddish to purplish petiole.

    “Type Q, 2-1/2" x 7", - Generally one side lobe is pointed and the other rounded. Ground color is bright green. Generally the midrib is irregularly margined yellow and leaf dotted and splashed yellow. A very effective oak leaf. Never shows and red traits.”

    REF: Paper prepared by Wm. A. Geiger in collaboration with Mr. Christian of the Christian Nursery, Mr. Van der Lean and Mr. George L. Peacock. p.13.

    Note to Ann...I will be sending you a few fotos of PHILADELPHIA in my next post of COSTA RICA CROTON WANDERINGS-THE MANY FACES OF PHILADELPHIA. :D
     
  14. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    I agree on the Philadelphia ID:p
     
  15. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks, Randy and Robertico! You two called it! Philadelphia it is- I will tag it tomorrow. I thought if I posted some of these unknowns, maybe someone would recognize one. I hope Phil sees this since I got the plant from him. Thanks again. :cool:
     
  16. Perry Edge

    Perry Edge Active Member

    Messages:
    126
    Anna, your pond is beautiful. I can easily picture Claude Monet busy at work doing a painting of it, like he did of ones in France.
     
  17. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Ann a -

    Yes, it's Philadelphia now (also see DR's other thread on this).

    the fog is lifting....
     
  18. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Not to be a cold water drench but the plant above is not Philadelphia. Philadelphia has very little shape variation from leaf to leaf and more importantly, reddish undersides to the leaves. They are similar but think most of you will agree it's not the same plant.

    From the Crotons.net website, here's Philadelphia:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Waaay up top - post #1, pic 3 looks a lot more like Quirko (aka Turkey Foot) than Philadelphia as pictured in Robertico's thread. My whoops somewhere here since I do not recall giving away a Quirko since mine nearly died but have given away Philadelphias as green and yellow unknowns.
    clearing with a bit of patch fog...
     
  20. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Phil, my Philadelphia came from you as an unknown. I also have a small Quirko with very regular oak shaped leaves that came from Keith. They are very different. Let the fog lift for a little while, will you?
     
  21. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks, Tim and Perry! Tim, I would love to show you my garden if you come up this way.:D
     
  22. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    I give up. Mine was tagged 'Philadelphia' when I bought it. If not then what is it???
     
  23. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Well, how do we explain the perfect description of my plant and Robertico's plants and Randy's tagged plant with the Christian Papers? In particular, about one leaf lobe being rounded while the other is pointed, and about there being no red in the cultivar? This is a very historic paper that we've believed in the past, are we now saying that it's wrong, favoring crotons.net? Ray, I don't see any leaves in your example with the said above description. Please explain why we should go with this website's example over the others.:rolleyes:
     
  24. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Ana is correct. The Christian Papers states on Philadelphia "never shows any red traits" Mmmmmmmmmmm No red on mine! Why do you say the photo on Crotons.net is correct?
     
  25. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    I have Robertico's same plant in my garden. When Bob A. visited here in 2009, I had several plants that needed identification. This plant in question was one of them. Perry Edge and I thought it was Earl of Derby from the first book's description. Bob said EoD is the original name for Mrs. Fred Sanders. There went that possibility. I asked if it was a Lyratum with more defined shoulders or Philadelphia and he said definitively no. I wrote down notes that day which is why the details are so readily available. Keep in mind, General Paget doesn't have any red in its description but I've seen clones with reddish/brown leaf undersides. In my notes about Philadelphia, it also says a "small, definite oak leaf (very little variation) similar to a yellow and green version of Norwood Beauty". Norwood Beauty NEVER puts out leaves even remotely resembling a semi oak and the shape is consistent from leaf to leaf. This mystery plant isn't a true oak leaf. It does more funky semi-oak stuff than anything else and no two leaves look the same.

    I'd love to close the book on this one too. It has baffled me for a long time but there's too much conflicting info (IMHO) for a positive ID.
     
  26. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,851
    Anna, Rays post above may give a little more insight on recent discussions.
     
  27. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks, Scott. Twice he's said Bob Alonzo feels Fred Sander and Earl of Derby are the same. Bob may know something we don't. I won't remove the comment about Earl of Derby being synonymous with Fred Sander but I'll put it under Fred Sander and remove the Mrs. I hope everyone agrees with this. I think we've solved most of the puzzle, just a few pieces remain. It would be nice to solve the mystery about that plant many thought was Philadelphia since many of us have it. Maybe we can invite Bob Alonzo to our fall meeting/auction?
     
  28. Native son

    Native son Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    878
    Location:
    10a
    image.jpg One more to look at that could be the famed Earl of Derby. image.jpg
     
  29. Kingdavid

    Kingdavid Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,163
    Location:
    st lucie co
    NOID..... kinda looks like your 6 and 7 , but i dont know the name 017.JPG 018.JPG
     
  30. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Nice, David. Very similar, but mine I think has less blotching and more veining? David, now you're going to make me get up and go look. My plant has gotten bigger and I should take a photo of it.
     
  31. Kingdavid

    Kingdavid Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,163
    Location:
    st lucie co
    Could be the same . Is that an older pic ?
     

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