New hybrids/new seedlings

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by annafl, Aug 8, 2013.

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  1. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Please bear with me because all this is new to me and I just want to do things correctly:eek:. I am uncertain where to put new seedlings or new hybrids named by the owner who has created/found them. Should these (created vs. found) be differentiated or placed in the same area. Should they be placed in the existing croton encyclopedia or in a new section? Should there be criteria such as- the plant has been propagated and shared with at least one or two other individuals? Something that we need to know what it is because it's out there where we might run across it? Should there be criteria as how many years the plant has existed?

    I don't have seedlings so I don't know what criteria are important or how they should be classified. It's time to have this discussion so we can start documenting these beautiful plants where everyone can see them. Those that have/grow/develop seedlings, please weigh in so we can establish a consensus of criteria for where to put plants. We are all dying to see your creations in the wiki. Jerry,Keith,Chris, Marie, Jeff,Kwtimo, and others, please give your opinion! Any other opinions are welcome also. Thanks! I'd love to get this going, so let's get a discussion please!:D
     
  2. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,753
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    First Anna, your doing a great job and you've taken on a tremendous task.

    My thoughts are, only a few people are actually growing crotons from seed. Some like myself do very little, why people like Jerry who has much more time, has created a "small nursery" of new seedlings over the last couple of years. To create a special place with all kinds of documentation ( sounds great) might be too much work or time for some. Are people going to want to down load lots of pictures starting from a two or three leaf stage? Boring. And progress over time with several more pictures as the plant grows over time? Maybe a couple of people will, those that have lots of time, but I think the majority of people will not and could care less. I'm old school and definitely at a very "basic" stage when it comes to computers. Like many of our earlier hybridizers, I just feel when our seedlings come up, we pick the ones that have potential and grow them out. Then put a name on it and start introducing it to others as they come through your garden. I have no problems with others that want to document their plants. And I welcome other views and their opinions.
     
  3. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    I'd also like to thank Anna for all of her hard work. I am thrilled to see the frenzy of activity on the forum over the last month or so that is largely due to it. My opinion is much like Jeff's. Seedlings can happen naturally or intentionally. Either way, they produce some really cool, beautiful new cultivars that can only greatly expand the number of known and documented cultivars. I think that most of the selected seedlings that are grown out due to their seeming potential should be acknowledged, named and propagated to share with others. There is unlimited potential here. For those who intentionally hybridize, documentation is an easier task. If info is available on parentage, it would be great to provide this for historical reasons. For the seedlings that are found growing underneath other plants in the garden, how could you provide any relevant info other than the geographical location they originated from? How important is that even? I don't think that a separate section is necessary in the WIKI for seedlings. Why not just team them with the others, providing documentation when available, but also giving credit to the growers of intentional hybridization? In the case of randomly found seedlings, I have two in particular that I dug up out of a property I do garden maintenance at that I feel have some real potential. One of these even caught Judy Glock's eyes a few weeks back. I am giving them time to see how they develop, and if they hold their particular characteristics, then see if I can begin to propagate them. Let's face it. Selected seedlings very cool and add tons of new stuff for us to admire, collect, and pass around to other enthusiasts. Anyone else?
     
  4. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,862
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    I'll let you guys hash out the details. Whatever you agree on is fine with me - this is your forum.

    Whenever you need my help, just holler.
     
  5. Jerry Shilling

    Jerry Shilling Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Summerland Key, FL zone 11
    Ana - thanks for leading us.

    I too believe a special section is not necessary. But I'm very concerned about the process. Who decides what newly named hybrids/seedlings are accepted into the Wiki? What are the criteria to get your plant accepted? If we choose to be lax on this, the Wiki and the hobby will be diminished in my opinion. An example, would be the green & yellow hybrid below. An attractive plant but is so similiar to others, it hasn't even crossed my mind to try and name it into the Wiki. But it does have a number - JLSHyb10110029. Maybe when it get's established the leaves will double in size...

    At the very least, I believe seedlings should be at least 2years old and closer to three before acceptance into the Wiki. Beginning around 18 months you should start taking some photos periodically to document performance...color, growth rate etc. Then make your case to the members and see what happens.

    By the way, this hybrid was germinated with the class of 2010/11 and went in the ground this past April. Leaf size is currently running 6"W x 12"L. It's getting a lot of sun and doing well.
     

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  6. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Well, now we're talking about some criteria. At least two years sounds reasonable. You bring up a good point, Jerry. Every plant society I've ever been a part of has had some kind of 'judging' or committee that decides whether cultivars are given names. Maybe we could select a panel of a few people who are very active on the forum that have a lot of experience with many croton cultivars to make the decisions. Let's keep talking.:)
     
  7. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    I am feeling very uncomfortable being in the position to be the gatekeeper to the wiki. Can I suggest that maybe you, Jeff, Jerry, and perhaps Marie be the New Croton Cultivar Committee to decide by majority vote which cultivars should be in the wiki? You three can start now with Jeff's and Jerry's seedlings/cultivars, decide on criteria and let me know the results of your vote. Please?:eek:
     
  8. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,644
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Great points there Anna! Reminds me of a quote attributed to Napoleon, "Every time I promote one of my generals to Field Marshall, I gain another ingrate and five more enemies."
    Jerry has proposed some very reasonable criteria for new cultivars - any further discussion there???
    Anna has proposed one solution that includes a small committee to determine if the new plant from seed meets the established criteria. Looks pretty reasonable to me.

    let's get out of the fog on this one fast
     
  9. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Well, it seems that so far, those that have expressed an opinion are in agreement that no special seedling section is needed- that the new plants should go directly into the existing wiki. It has also come up that a plant should be at least two years old before deciding if it should be named and documented in the wiki. Another idea is that a plant should be distributed to a few others before it is decided to enter it in the wiki. There is also the opinion that there should be no criteria, anyone can enter any plant they want at any time. I brought up that maybe there should be a group of three knowledgeable people (not me), vote and decide which plants should be placed in the wiki. Keep the ideas coming, people! Everyone's opinions count and should be heard. We will resolve this one eventually.;)
     
  10. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Please voice your opinions and thoughts in this thread so we can have one reference point. Thank-you.
     
  11. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    It is my feelings that without a defacto Society, croton lovers as a group are like a ship adrift witout a sail. What is past is past - lets not rehash former occurences. A Society has its postives and negatives, comprised by persons having simular appreciation for certain plants. As humans, different personalities, feelings and agendas are always involved.

    Bottom line: These plants are worthy of a Society. Its time to get a new one organized in my opinion.
     
  12. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    MOOSE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
     
  13. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Ana - if your looking for a consensus of opinions, you may get frustrated. Part of the Wiki format is that anyone can post whatever they want. If someone that is registered desired to put photos of plants certainly ID'd as something else, they could. Your hard work has filled in alot of blanks in the Wiki. No one (including myself) has dedicated themselves to this time consuming task. You have nearly finished all the work that Bren started.

    Thanks to your efforts, you have really regenerated alot of activity on this forum. You got thread one month old that has over 3,000 hits - there's you proof. Here is another opinion - just do what you feel is best. You have my full approval and appreciation. The Wiki is "not chiseled in stone", adjustments can be made in the future.

    Without a Society, who is to set criteria? We all love these plants. I think it may be time to reform a Society.
     

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