Named Crotons not in Wiki (Correct Names?)

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by VeroKarl, Aug 12, 2017.

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  1. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I have been putting permanent tags in the gardens for all of my crotons. As I was going along I was finding several named varieties not in the wiki. I wanted to see if these are correct names or if they are in the wiki under different names. Some may just be too recent and not widely distributed but many I got from Mark years ago at plant sales. I would really appreciate any help I can get confirming the names for my tags. Thanks Karl

    Aztec War Bonnet.JPG
    Aztec War Bonnet (this plant is also on display at Harry Leu with the same name). This came from Mark Peters.

    Black Thai.JPG
    Black Thai: Got from Jeff at his last plant sale. Not a good photo. I wasn't sure if this was an official name.

    Butterball 3.JPG
    Butterball: Won at the last auction from Lamar. David also has this plant with the same name. If I remember correctly it was from the same seed batch as Buttercup.

    Cascade.JPG
    Cascade: This came from David. His plants are much more colorful and you can find pictures in his thread. The leaves appear longer than Mini Cascade.

    Dr. Seuss.JPG
    Dr. Seuss: I believe this is a relatively recent introduction from Marie.
     
  2. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Here are some more:
    B.H. # 3.JPG
    B.H. #3: I believe it came from Jeff at the last auction. The most recent flush has not colored up yet because it is a beautiful croton.
    Best Hawaiian (2).JPG
    Best Hawaiian: This is one I got from Marie at the auction and I had down this name but did not know if it was an official name. Beautiful plant and growing fast.

    Firecracker (2).JPG
    Firecracker: I am pretty sure this came from Mark years ago. Not a great photo but hopefully you can make it out. I don't know if this is another name for one that already is on the wiki.

    Grady Drake.JPG
    Grady Drake: This came from Jeff's last sale. I got great recommendations from Judy on which plants to buy.

    Lava Flow.JPG
    Lava Flow: This came from Mark a few years ago. It is one of my slowest crotons, still only about 6 inches tall.
     
  3. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    A few more.
    Lover's Night.JPG
    Lover's Night: Another plant from Jeff's sale that Judy recommended that has really colored up in full sun.
    Luc's Green and Gold (2).JPG
    Luc's Green and Gold: This came from David, but I also have seen it from Mark at the plant shows.

    Matchstick 2.JPG
    Matchstick: I got this at Ron's auction. I post photos often because it has the thinnest leaves of any croton I have seen and seems to stay very small.

    Red Stripe (2).JPG
    Red Stripe: Another plant I got from Mark years ago. Looks similar to some other cultivars so did not know if it was the same or something different.
     
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  4. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Will add some more later. Would love to see photos if other people have the same cultivars to see how they look in other gardens.
     
  5. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    I would love it if sources other than where you got them can confirm some of these.:)
     
  6. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I agree. Would love to hear from some other members of the forum to get their input and also see other people's photos to find out what they look like in other gardens.
     
  7. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Here are a couple more.
    Ray's Finest Unknown.JPG
    Ray's Finest Unknown: What a beautiful croton that I got from Marie. I believe Randy had it as well when I visited, but don't know if this is the actual name that is used for it.

    Searle #3.JPG
    Searle #3: Another plant from Jeff's last sale. I believe Searle #2 is on the wiki but not this one.

    Yellow Fever (2).JPG
    Yellow Fever: This also came from Jeff at the last sale.
     
  8. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Almost forgot this recent addition from Randy.

    Shashona.JPG
    Shoshanna: Still very small but spectacular colors. Randy had great photos of the parent on another thread.
     
  9. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Of these, I have and can confirm The Finest Unknown. It's a beautiful plant that has been around for a long time. Thought to be an Aubry Christian hybrid, but didn't have a name, and hence this name. I think it deserves to be in the wiki, but have hesitated to put it in because of the lack of a 'proper' name. But, it is known as The Finest Unknown (I think Ray Hernandez gave it that unofficial name), and maybe we can put it in there as that as a placeholder, much like we did Eggfarm. I also have Black Thai which I got at Jeff's sale, but didn't know if that was a descriptive name or its real name or if it has another name. Let's hope for clarification. I won't have the wiki available to me for a week now, but let's see if we can make some progress so we can catch up in a week.
     
  10. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Here is another one I got from David.
    Hitchcock.JPG
    Mr. Hitchcock: From David and below is a picture of David's plant I got from his thread.

    [​IMG]

    I know David has discussed this plant before on his thread. I believe he had talked about it being an old cultivar. Maybe someone else has more information.

    Other people are welcome to post additional named plants that need confirmation on the thread. I would love to learn more about all of them and hopefully we can get some history and assure the names ate accurate for Ana. I am sure Jeff has some history on the plants I got from his sale and since Judy was familiar with most of them she may have more information as well.
    Thanks,
    Karl
     
  11. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,644
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Many Thai type crotons will black out or get very dark in low light conditions. Most like very bright light and can tolerate full sun especially with high humidity. David ?? in Ft. Lauderdale area brought in a load of Thai crotons some years back. He had most in full sun to maintain color.

    Luc's Green & Gold sure looks a lot like Fishbone.

    Can you put something in the pics for scale? A six inch plastic ruler works well.

    Also have a Searle #3 - slow and the workers installing new screen around the birdcage whomped it a bit.
     
  12. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    The Black Thai is getting nearly full sun and has kept the dark color. Much darker than other Thai crotons I have. I will take some photos with a ruler showing size of some of the leaves. I have Fish Bone and the leaves are much longer and lighter/brighter color than Luc's Green and Gold. I will take a picture with the leaves side by side. I am guessing that Searle #3 must be a legitimate name if you have one as well.
    Thanks
     
  13. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    669
    I have a little information on a few that you listed:

    Luc's Green and Gold - the name was put on as a placeholder by Bob Pope when he was gathering crotons for Gardens by the Bay. He acquired it from the late Luc Vannorbeeck of Florida Colors Nursery. It's distinctive because of the boldness of the yellow, even in shady conditions.

    Dr. Seuss is one of my seedlings. Mike Harris helped me name it and convinced me that Dr. Seuss was a better name than Green Eggs and Ham. Mike probably has the largest plant because he got it years ago. I would estimate that it's in about 20 collections.

    Best Hawaiian - is a placeholder that I put on the most beautiful croton we found in Hawaii. I was sure it would have a name. It has never achieved the colors, bright fuchias, here that it had in Hawaii.

    Lava Flow - I believe this was a Richard Button seedling. Jose might be able to confirm.
     
  14. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Thanks Marie,

    While Best Hawaiian may not have the same colors as in Hawaii it is a beautiful plant and definitely deserving of its name. Is it in many collections and are you fine with making Best Hawaiian a permanent name? I remember you had a large specimen in your yard. It seems to be distinctly different from anything else around. Sounds like Dr. Seuss is established enough to takes its place on the wiki. These plants both have taken off in my garden and seem very vigorous and I would not want to be without them. It is also good to get a bit of history on the other two. Do you have Lava Flow? I am just wondering if it is so slow for everyone.
     
  15. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Here you go from my end.....

    Black Thai...is a croton I brought back probably 20 years ago from Thailand. It was always black in color.
    BH #3...a plant from Bob Halgrim's garden, never could get a name, If it ever had one(?).
    Grady Drake...a plant from my old friend Grady's yard. He never named any of his seedlings. Just not 100% sure if this is an old already named plant OR one of his seedlings.
    Lovers Night...a plant I named from the Richard Krukonis garden that I collected from many yeas ago. Most all of the crotons there have now died OR look so bad, their not recognizable. I'm the only one that to my knowledge, was able to collect cuttings from this garden approx. 15 years ago up to this day.
    Matchstick....a valid name, I have the same plant. Have no idea who named it.
    Searle #3...my seedling.
    Yellow Fevor...my seedling.

    Hope this helps some.
     
  16. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Jeff, This is great. I am going to make tags for all of those names and consider them to be the official names. I know I got the Matchstick from someone else (I know it was a woman but can't remember her name, I have in my head that her name was something like Cookie but it has been two years and she was not at Ana's tour/auction), so now that I know you have it as well that is all the confirmation I need. I will probably have 10 more plants from your next sale that you will need to tell me the history of. Thanks!
     
  17. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    I Karl,
    Your more than welcome. And you mentioned Cookie, that's Carol Graf and she lives down in Miami. I actually got my plant from her too. But I'm not sure if it's her seedling or someone else.
     
  18. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Yes, I have a Ray's Finest Unknown & that's the name I bought it under. I thought it came from Ray Hernandez
     
  19. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    DSC_0213.JPG
    This was a small sport I found in Hollywood about 5 years ago. It's surprisingly pest resistant! I named it Shoshanna.
     
  20. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Hi everyone. Sorry for the disappearing act. I was out of the country till 3 this morning. I will start slowly working on making wiki pages for some of the crotons that have been confirmed later this week when I have a little extra time and can catch up. It would be great if there were more photos from others with more examples of the characteristics of these cultivars, and closeups of details. Marie and Jeff, could you contribute photos for some of these? Camera photos are much better than iphone or ipad photos as they expand nicely and give more detail, but I'll take any good photos I can get. Also, sharp focus and isolation of the plant would be best for a nice documentation if possible. It is probably now or never! Thanks, Karl for getting this going. I'm hopeful we can get a few more confirmed and documented.

    1) Karl, the first one that you call Mr. Hitchcock. I have that one and got it by the name of Thomas Hitchcock. Can anyone shed any more light on this one, its proper name, another photo, etc?

    2) Sounds like Black Thai is well spread and documented. It would be nice to have more nice photos. I will try to get one of mine too.

    3) Any more photos of Dr. Seuss, Searle #3, Best Hawaiian, Luc's Green and Gold, Yellow Fever, Lover's Night?

    4) For The Finest Unknown (which is the name I got mine under), is it Ray's Finest Unknown or just The Finest Unknown. I know Ray put the first photo up years ago. Did it acquire his name? Anyone?

    5) Randy, any more photos for Shoshanna, and do others have this one? It's such a great attribute that it is rather pest resistant!

    6) Karl, I love that little Matchstick. It sounds like it's confirmed. I think you've had better photos of it before. Can you try again?

    Let's start there, but keep it going if we can get more confirmations it would be great.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  21. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Hi Ana,
    Welcome back. I will try to get some other photos of Matchstick. Hopefully some of the other members can confirm if Mr. Hitchcock and Thomas Hitchcock are the same. I got it from David and he knows the history of his plant. I am pretty sure Randy kept his original Shoshanna. I could not get a good picture of my Black Thai so hopefully someone with a more mature plant can take a photo (maybe Jeff has a picture of the original). If I remember correctly David has a large Luc's Green and Gold and now that he is able to post photos we should be able to get some from him.

    I also got a bunch more from Randy. One was called Halloween and it was one that Mike had created. Don't know any details on that one but will take a picture after I get it in the ground. I am sure there are still plenty of exciting cultivars to be unearthed among the croton clan.
    Thanks,
    Karl
     
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  22. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Off to a slow start. Only Luc's Green and Gold. One good photo from Karl and a little information from Marie. Would like to do a couple more tomorrow, but I'm really hoping to get more photos/answers from all of you. Photos that show the plants' mature characteristics/color. I noticed Thomas Hitchcock is already in the wiki, and mine looks like Perry's and Rick's. Could there be another cultivar by the name of Mr. Hitchcock that looks like David's? Anyone know? Anyone know if Ray's Finest Unknown is the best name for the croton that I got under The Finest Unknown?
     
  23. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Took a couple of photos today of my Black Thai.

    DSC_1903.JPG


    DSC_1900.JPG
     
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  24. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Here is what I have as Ray's Finest Unknown. I love this plant. It is always colorful. I find it to be a slow grower and brancher, though. Ray's Finest Unknown.JPG
     
  25. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Matchstick New.JPG
    Lover's Night New.JPG
    Some new photos of Matchstick and Lover's Night.

    Searle #3 New.JPG

    Searle #3 Close.JPG
    A couple of new photos of Searle #3.
     
  26. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Aztec War Bonnet (2).JPG
    Aztec War Bonnet.

    Best Hawaiian New.JPG
    Best Hawaiian new photo.

    Black Thai New.JPG
    Black Thai new photo. Halloween.JPG
    Halloween which I just got from Randy.
     
  27. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Thanks so much for the new photos, Karl! Hopefully I'll have a little time this afternoon to do a little more work.:)
     
  28. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Location:
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    The Halloween originally came from Mike Woolery, which I believe is his creation.
     
  29. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    669
    I'll add what I know about Halloween. I think it's a Hawaiian cultivar - at least the first few plants in South Florida came from plants that we acquired in Hawaii. Ray Fernandez first saw it on the north coast of Oahu and he was responsible for naming it. When we went croton hunting on Oahu, we found it in many locales/nurseries. It likes a lot of light to show its good orange colors and it is not a strong grower If you do a search on this Forum, you'll find some old posts.
     
  30. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Thanks Marie, I went back through some old threads and did find an old photo from Ron and a bit of information. I have it in full sun, so hopefully will see some of the orange showing up once it has settled in. The plant I got from Randy is nicely sized so should give me a good start. I had never heard of it before Randy since it was not in the wiki and I don't remember seeing it at auctions or sales. Since I have Thanksgiving and Christmas, I needed to add Halloween. I am also drawn to plants that I have not heard of before and it looked different from anything I have.
     
  31. Gauteng

    Gauteng Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hollywood, Florida
    First time posting. I saw your new Wiki entry for Halloween today, and was wondering whether this plant is the same thing? I have had it for over 15 years and got it from the late Dave McClean.
     

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  32. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

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    1,258
    Location:
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    It looks like Halloween in full sun. Welcome
     
  33. Gauteng

    Gauteng Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hollywood, Florida
    Thank you, Randy! I saw in an earlier post that you thought this may have come from Mike Woolery. It may have, but herin lies a funny story. About 10-15 years ago, I knew a guy who used to grow plants on a plot in Davie, and he used to come help me with heavier garden work every now and then. He would take palm seeds and cuttings from various plants including my quite large croton collection. After propagating them he would sell them. When I met Mike W one Christmas at Jeff's, he asked if I was Melanie from Hollywood? Why indeed yes! Mike would buy crotons from the same person who took cuttings from my yard.
     
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  34. VeroKarl

    VeroKarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Hi Melanie. Thanks for sharing the photos of Halloween. Now I am even more excited about having it, seeing the colors in full sun. Randy had told me it would color up nicely in sun and he was right. Glad to have you join us and share your photos. I was lucky enough to get several really special crotons from Randy to help build up my collection (probably got around 40 different cultivars in my 3 visits down to him before he moved). Looking forward to seeing some of the other crotons you have in your gardens.
     
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  35. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Melanie! So happy to see your post! I love the story. They say gardeners are the most generous people. It looks like Halloween to me too. It's so nice to see what this croton is capable of doing in full sun. Thanks so much for posting your photos. They are great and I'd love to put them in the wiki if you don't mind if I use your name? What is your name? I sure hope you will continue to post comments and photos and tell any stories you like or any history you know. It sounds like you've been collecting for a long time, so you probably have some oldies and goodies! Welcome to the forum. Ana
     
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  36. Gauteng

    Gauteng Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hollywood, Florida
    Hi Anna! Of course I don't mind at all. Always happy to share - it's part of the fun and the very thing that makes gardeners such lovely people. I started collecting in the late 90's early 2000's after Jessie D got me hooked. Also got many from Joseph Vondeur, Thai's from Dave Hickman, about a dozen of which are still growing, Johnny Shelton, I-95 nursery, and Dave McClean when he had Trinity Gardens. At one point back then there were over 250 different crotons in the garden, but I lost quite a few when they started getting scale and other sucking visitors. Have been at it again for about 5 years, and like you, collect mainly with design, color, and texture in mind. Melanie Cohen
     
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  37. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    I was wondering if it was Melanie Cohen. I have met you at the Ganza sales. I'm so glad you're here. Please stay with us and share your thoughts, comments and croton photos, Melanie. Your name threw me off. Is there a story behind it?
     
  38. Gauteng

    Gauteng Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hollywood, Florida
    Gauteng? Land of Gold - the province which I come from in South Africa. :)
     
  39. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Oh. I've never heard of it, but now I know. Thanks.
     
  40. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0057.JPG IMG_0052.JPG

    My first time loading photos from a phone. These are Best Hawaiian.
     
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