Lets Talk Curly Boy

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by ScotTi, Nov 20, 2010.

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  1. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Who is growing Curly Boy? A Croton with long curly leaves with nice colors. Not spoken of much. Lets give this boy his day in the spotlight.
     

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  2. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    a few more shots....
     

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  3. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

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    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    Nice shots!
    I wonder, is Curly Boy different from the old time variety 'Spirale'?
    Anyone know any history on this name as far as dates or origins??
     
  4. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    This was one of the first varieties I planted some 15 years ago. A reliable performer that needs strong light to develop full color.
     
  5. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Scott,


    First, Spirale is very different with having a very thin leaf with a slight twirl, twist, whatever you want to call it. Similar colors, but again, the leaf is maybe the width of a pencil.

    I've never had Curly Boy, so I'm not sure, but I do have the original Corkscrew, and just wondering if the two are different. Never seen these two side by side, and hopefully Curly Boy is not another "new" name that's been placed on a very old variety.

    Anybody?
     
  6. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    4,845
    Lets talk this one out... 1st pic Corkscrew belongs to Moose, 2ed pic my Curly Boy.
     

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  7. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    I kind of suspected that Spirale was a narrower leaf but wasn't sure...
    But I thought it was real twisted as opposed to slightly twisted...
    Here's an illustration of Spirale from an 1876 article by Thomas Meehan on "Croton Culture" that I stumbled across this morning:
     

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  8. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    (Hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much...)
    And here's a Spirale that looks more like Jeff's description, this one an illustration from 1969 by Gordon Gee...
    Makes me wonder what happened to the 1876 Spirale - did the same plant morph from very twisted to slightly twisted over the intervening 93 years? Or was it grown under different conditions?? Or is it a different plant altogether???
    I know vegetatively propagated plants can shift in appearance over time - I've seen this in big wholesale nurseries in Florida with two large blocks of the same dieffenbachia cultivar with one block originating from one source of cuttings, and the other block coming from a different source, and when standing back looking at both blocks they appear different...
     

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  9. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Here is Laurens Rainbow that throws a few really narrow twisted leaves. LR shows the same colors as Curly Boy. The 4th pic shows me holding a twisted LR next to Curly Boy. So maybe Spirale is a sport off LR or LR is a sport of Spirale or from Curly Boy or? (see next post)
     

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  10. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    We also have Mammie (bottom of these pics) with Curly Boy (top plant in pics) colors same, leaf size changes with more spirale to CB. Did one sport the other? Now where does Corkscrew come in to the mix?
     

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  11. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    Peyton, I see no hijacking of the thread. It seems to tie in real well. But what came first the chicken or egg? :confused: Who sports who in the world of Crotons?
     
  12. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Going back to the pics of Moose's and yours: Moose's gets less light and therefore more green. Yours gets more light and more color. FWIW, I suspect Corkscrew and Curly Boy are ofne and the same variety.
     
  13. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    Man, that's a good question, and a difficult trail to follow what with all the sports and hybrids and random volunteer seedlings...
    I recently read part of an old chromosome study on crotons from around 1960 that found numerous different chromosome counts from cells in a single root tip. The study mentioned the term "chromosome mosaic"... perhaps this helps explain the "genetic instability" I see mentioned in croton literature.
     
  14. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Phil - I suspect that your suspeciousness is correct. Although my "corkscrew" is planted on a Southern exposure, it is heavily shaded until this time of the year and the southerly shifting sun starts coloring it up. It looks very simular to Peyton's Curly Boy.

    This posting made me go put on Elvis singing Suspecious Minds. :cool:LOL :cool:
     
  15. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

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    4,845
    I also think the two are one in the same.
     
  16. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Lets really muck it up. Lady Claire is supposedly a sport of Tortilus. Lady Claire is often refered to as "the Yellow Corkscrew". :confused:

    Where is Ray??? :p
     
  17. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    So where does the regular Tortilis (original spelling?) fit in here?
    Here's a pic from an 1884 publication...
    And a 'Corkscrew'? cutting from the local university - this plant dates back to 1974 for sure, and probably ten or twenty years or more before that...
    Could this Corkscrew be the same as Curly Boy?
     

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  18. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Looks the same to me, but what name came first. :confused:
     
  19. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Curly Boy - definite ID by everyone who came to both Croton meetings at our garden. No pink! Just primary colors. This is in deep shade except at noon and then for only an hour at most.
     

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  20. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
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    Ricky, Are you saying Curly Boy has no pink, and Corkscrew has pink?
     
  21. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    No. Only saying that Curly Boy has no pink. The photo just above my post is actually Delicatissima. I have no idea what Corkscrew is, but I agree, it probably is just another name for Curly Boy.
     
  22. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Peytons posted pic looks like Curly Boy to me. The few pictures I have seen of Delicatissima the leaves looked to be more narrow. Also one of my CB growing in a few hrs of afternoon sun have pink.
     

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  23. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    The one photo in the Book is not the best quality, but yes, the leaves of Delicatissima are smaller and thinner than Curly Boy. One side of Delicatissima is pink to purple, the other side is green and yellow. Curly Boy is red to orange on the underside of the leaf and yellow with green on the other. Curly Boy leaves are around 1/3 wider and longer than Delicatissima. . .

    . . . probably.

    This is Delicatissima according to the chap that planted 48 of them along 41st in Miami Beach.
     

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  24. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Ricky,

    Delicatissima barely curls at all. It has narrow, small leaves (like Zanzibar or Brilliantissima) but they have a slight often indiscernable slight twist. It's not what I'd call a pure corkscrew type.

    I remember Johnny Shelton telling me years ago that Curly Boy is a newer name for the old Red Corkscrew variety.

    Ray
     
  25. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    I thought I would add photos of my Curly Boy as it looks now. The plants receive only late afternoon sun.
    IMG_3423.jpg IMG_3426.jpg IMG_3424.jpg
     
  26. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    What is the final word? Is Curly Boy and Corkscrew the same cultivar?
     
  27. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    No. Curly Boy has red as it's primary color - no pink at all, except in new leaves before it turns red. Corkscrew has pink in the older leaves. I'll post some pictures this afternoon when I get home from Dallas. Randy and I found a beautiful Corkscrew growing in an alley in Hollywood Hills last year and took a huge pile of cuttings.
     
  28. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Three different Curly Boys. The third one grown in deep shade.

    curly3.jpg curly1.jpg curly2.jpg
     
  29. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Two different Corkscrews. The first two are the same plant with a closeup. The third picture has a Corkscrew that gets heavy sun in the afternoon.

    corkscrew3.jpg corkscrew1.jpg corkscrew2.jpg
     
  30. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Thanks for the photos Ricky. The 3 Curly Boy plants that I am growing have only red as the primary color. The pinks are only noted on newer growth before turning red.
     
  31. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    This “SPIRALE TYPE” Croton has been in my garden now for about a couple of years and I have not been able to put a name on it. Thanks to Scott’s thread and the membership fotos plus commentary, I think mine could be CURLY BOY…can anyone confirm from my photographs attached below :confused: ?
     

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  32. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Don - It's impossible to be 100% sure from a photograph, but your plant appears to be Curly Boy.,
     
  33. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    If I may weigh in, I think based on the clear photos of Scott's plant in post #25, it's a dead ringer for Corkscrew, and would almost be certain that Curly Boy is a "new name" for an old plant. I have a nice size Corkscrew ( absolutely certain ) growing here at the house in full sun. It's dominant color is red. I also remember this plant being around in the 60's and 70's when my dad grew a few crotons, back in the day.
     
  34. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    I saw this one today while traveling in Guatemala. Is this a DSC_0051.jpg DSC_0049.jpg Curly Boy?
     

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