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Frank Brown's Book Correction List

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Moose, Oct 12, 2009.

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  1. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Some of the id's in Frank brown's book have been updated and some pictures were switched. This is an unofficial correction list and is for informational purposes only. This is draft and not a published accounting. ;)



    Croton.errata.doc

    Page Location Incorrect Name **Correct Name

    11 - UR - * - Ralph Davis Hybrid, **Fred Sanders
    14 - LL - * - Davis #2, **Petra
    18 - UR - * - Hybrid in ... Garden, **White Polychrome
    18 - LR - * - Unnamed hybrid, **Crossroad – sport from Stoplight
    19 - LL - * - Sport on John Bender, **Juliet Reasoner
    19 - LR - * - Yellow Van Buren, **unknown
    27 - LL - * - Daisy Ortegas, **William Craig
    38 - LL - * - Picturatum, **Majesticum
    54 - LR - * - Dreer #7, **Rapture
    55 - LL - * - Ralph Davis Hybrid, **Jungle Queen
    59 - UL - * - Majesticum, **Picturatum
    74 - LL - * - Unnamed hybrid...Place, **Rosie O’Grady (see photo on p54)
    75 - UL - * - General Lawrence, **Mons Florin
    75 - LL - * - Mons Florin, **General Lawrence
    75 - MR - * - ... Harvest Moon, ** General Lawrence
    79 - LL - * - Lady Bird Johnson, **Charles Rutherford (see p 31)
    82 - LR - * - Red Arrow, **Davis Compacta
    86 - ML - * - Ralph Davis Hybrid, **Michaelangelo
    103 - UL - * - McKenzie King, **Unknown
    103 - UR - * - Barbara Bush, **Evening Embers
    107 - LL - * - Rainbow, **Catherine Gephardt
    110 - UL - * - Van Buren seedling , **Super California
    110 - ML - * - Hybrid in...Garden, **Michaelangelo (see p 86 ML)
    110 - UR - * - Baron Rothschild, **Sandborne Jr.
    110 - LR - * - Unnamed Hybrid, **Madame Fernand Kohl
    120 - UL - * - Michaelangelo, **unknown
    120 - UR - * - Henry VIII, **Evening Embers
    120 - LR - * - Nancy Reagan, **McKenzie King

    Crotons labeled Plat Oak from Searle Bros. are Plaid Oak.


    This information is based on a conversation with Johnny Shelton at the 2004 Croton Fiesta.
    Recommend you run this by him before publishing; he may recall a few ‘unknown’ names.
     
  2. Plant Nut

    Plant Nut Active Member

    Messages:
    114
    Moose:

    Thank-you very much for passing that information on. I appreciate the time you spent and I am sure others do too, even though some of the names may still be challenged.
    I am finding it interesting and have already grabbed Frank's book and find many of the names accurate...
     
  3. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    624
    Mostlly helpful but still confusing. On another thread Dreer #7 is identified as America. I think I have a croton that John Bender gave me IDed as Rapture and it looks quite different from America.
     
  4. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    And,.......where's the real Dr. Lin Yu Tang? I know everyone keeps saying "their" plant comes from the garden in ? ( Excuse me, can't remember the name of the garden and the city) But these plants look nothing like the one in the book on page 110. Not even close, nor very pretty IMO. So can someone shed some light on this one? Thanks in advance.


    Jeff
     
  5. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    I just formated the list so it could be posted on this forum. Of course there is going to be debate because this is the Croton Society. This list has been around awhile and thought it may be useful. :rolleyes:

    Ron. :)
     
  6. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Hi Marie,

    I don't believe there is a photo of Rapture anywhere in the book. Per Lee, Keith, Phil and Bob A., the photo below is Rapture. The color could be a bit better but the leaf shape is unmistakable.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Ray - that kind of looks like the "Red Foot" cultivar that Jeff had at his sale? :confused:

    Ron. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,585
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Jeff-

    Concerning Dr Lin YuTang. The one I've been calling Dr Tang is based upon a visit to Sunken Gardens in St. Pete by Bob Alonzo some 5-10 years ago. He postively ID'd the plant as Dr Tang. We were fortunate to get some cuttings/air layers from the one plant (located by the flamingo pond, still there, and looking a bit scraggly since it is about 15 ft tall). To complicate matters, apparently the photos in Dr. Brown's book on p110 are wrong (Dr Tang may be the one in the LL and not the middle Right - again, this is based upon a conversation with Johhny Shelton as noted above). The plant you have is from one in my yard and is from the one in Sunken Gardens. So at least we know the provenance of it. I suspect it may get a lot more pink with more light.
    Onward through the fog,
    Phil
     
  9. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,585
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Moose-
    I want to emphasize that the info above is from one conversation between Johhny and myself. We went through my copy of Dr. Brown's book and he pointed out the errors, and I annoted my copy of the book. The list was prepared from that. Six years later, the notes in the book are not quite as clear to me now as they were then, e.g., see my comments to Jeff Searle regarding Dr. Tang.

    ..and for more on the real Dr. Tang, see the article in the Feb 1938 issue of Readers Digest. The oither articles are alos hilarious reading.
     
  10. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Thanks Phil, it is good to know the source. Your emphasis is noted and should be accepted for those using the listed corrections. :) I posted the list as it answers some questions and creates a few others. A bit of a disclaimer was put in the beginning as a notice that this list is not "official". Thought it would be nice to post for "discussional" purposes.

    Can we get a photo of Dr. Lin Yu Tang? :eek:

    Thanks again!

    Ron. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ray / Others,

    In regards to the above picture on the croton "Rapture", I'm still not 100% sure what really Rapture is suppose to look like either. But, based on some simple facts, this is what has expired over time for me.

    1)My original plant ( not shown in picture above) was sold to me from Johnny Shelton several years ago as Rapture. It looks completely different.

    2) When I brought back several old plants that were rescued from the late Robert Halgrim's property, there was a croton that Bob Alonzo ID'ed as Rapture and is not the one in the above photo.

    3) And, Bob Alonzo was just at my house three weeks ago and saw this croton (in the above picture) and as well as plants in the nursery and said this was not Rapture.

    Believe me, this is one croton I wish we could clear up. Any other thoughts?


    Jeff
     
  12. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    My thought is that it is a great looking cultivar whatever it is called. That is the reason I purchased it! :cool:

    Ron. :)
     
  13. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    You can drive yourself crazy with trying to accurately name croton. I gave up a long time ago. Some are obvious, i.e. Pic.paintbrush, dreadheads, gold dust, but a lot of the obscure ones are well...obscure! Thanks to this forum we can sort out the names, but I'm just on the edge of not caring what the name is due to the confusion!
     
  14. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    I feel the same way about Dypsis palms Dave.
     
  15. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,417
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Until this thread started, I'd never heard of "Rapture". If that's what the photo is (above) I can't say I'm impressed. The leaf shape seems to be a skinny "General Paget", which, despite its commonness, I think is a much more interesting Croton. But that's why they make Fords and Chevys.

    I'm going to make copies of the original list (also above) and have them available for Saturday. I'd like to correct my copy of the book, but I'm not going to do so unless there's agreement on the corrections.
     
  16. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    The coloring of both these crotons is not well representative of what a mature one will look like. When I was looking at my croton, Ray had directed me to inspect the lower mature and aged leaves colors to help me invision what I was to expect when this guy becomes a large robust plant. I was impressed and look forward seeing this plant's development! :p

    Ron. :)
     
  17. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Does anyone know what Rapture looks like? Is anyone growing what has been identified as Rapture. Please post a photo if you have one. I am curious. ;)
     
  18. Crazy for Crotons

    Crazy for Crotons Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    south Tampa, Bokeelia
    Mine could use a bit more light.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    For Marie Nock - here is the correction list we talked about! :)
     
  20. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    624
    Thanks Ron. I really appreciate it. I don't know where the original went?
     
  21. irene_kingsley

    irene_kingsley Active Member

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Singapore
    thanks so much for e info. =)
     
  22. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    speaking of Dr.Brown's book, I was driving home from surfing Playalinda last weekend and along U.S. 1 just South of Titusville a roadside stand caught my eye with it being littered with croton.

    We had to do a U-turn to get back to it and this guy had some great looking croton for sale. He found out that I was a croton junky and asked if I had the Dr. Brown book.

    He said the majority of the photos came from his nursery and he has been collecting for 30 years. His name is Louie.

    I ran through about 200+ photos of croton he has had in his nursery in Hondorus and here in Brevard. Thus, I have a source for some good ones!
     
  23. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,845
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Whenever I start getting confused and frustrated trying to ID some Dypsis with a friends, I just come and read some of these threads. Then I realize my life with Dypsis is fairly simple in comparison. :)
     
  24. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    That's right Dean, all of us here are in such an elite group with a key eye on detail, there's very few of us in the entire world. Were special! Palm collectors can't hold a candle to us.:)
     
  25. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Dave,

    Do you know what Louie's last name is?
     
  26. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Morehead. He is mentioned in the acknowledgments p.133
     
  27. Central Floridave

    Central Floridave Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    here is a photo of his road side stand. He had a pretty good gig. Grilling food, selling his key lime pie (he owns Florida Key Lime Pie Company), and a small produce stand.
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Anyone up for a Road Trip? :rolleyes:

     
  29. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    I disagree with Nancy Reagan not being correct, and that it's really McKinzie King. Says Johnny? On page 120, that's exactly what's been going around for years.
     
  30. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Alot of new people visiting the forum, especially "the lurkers". Dug up this old thread referencing the photos in Dr. Brown's book. :)

    You can copy the first post , print it, then tuck it in your book.
     
  31. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Ron,

    Funny you posted this, I was just looking at this old thread a couple of days ago. My only disagreement is, on page 54. I strongly think the picture IS Dreer #7, and not only because it was printed as such from B. Frank , but I have what I believe is the true Rapture based on what Bob Alonzo said. It DOES get a very large leave, where the Dreer plant doesn't. Side be side, you can see slight similarities, but clearly two different plants.

    I think the rest of the corrections look pretty good.
     

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