Forum Name Change

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Moose, Feb 13, 2014.

Banner funded expressly in recognition and support of Tropiscape.

  1. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Technically the Croton Society still exists. It is still registered with the State of Florida. Personally I've considered it to be sleeping. There are many former Society Members that are hoping with time it will reemerge from its hibernation.

    Don't care for the name change at all! :mad:
     
  2. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    I agree, Moose. This is the Croton Society. TropiScape sounds like a landscape company.
     
  3. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    OK - I put the croton discussions back under "The Croton Society" in the Plant Society Section. I was thinking that the plant discussions should be in the Plant Discussion section where first time visitors would more easily find it if looking for info. I thought that first time visitors seeing "The Croton Society," among the other "Plant Societies," may overlook it if they were not interested in joining a society.

    As to the name change - it seemed obvious to me that I needed to attract and cater to more people than palm people. And that Palmpedia should be the Palm Encyclopdia. And we could eventually have a Crotonpedia. There has been constant confusion between the Palmpedia Encyclopedia and the Palmpedia tropical plant forum. I tried dozens of domain names that sounded all inclusive for advice and discussions of tropicals - all taken. Any better ideas?
     
  4. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    I kept clicking on the Tropiscape banner thinking it was a new advertiser with a bad link. :( No name change for me.
     
  5. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    I did the same! It's worded as a advertisement IMO.

    BTW...where's the Floribunda add? Just a decision on Jeff's part to stop for awhile?
     
  6. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    FYI - Almost every website and website software out there has a built in space for the site name in the upper left hand corner - it doubles as a link to get you back to the site's home page - more or less an internet convention. If you are ever lost on a website, just click the site name/logo in the upper left, and you are back on the home page.

    And both Toby and Jeff stopped advertising years ago, after I became tired of soliciting every year. I kept them there as a favor, and because finding advertisers is difficult. Since I have redone the advertising scheme, along the lines of most other websites, it appears as if about half of my expenses are now being covered.

    And just since the name change, traffic has already increased as we are appearing on more searches appealing to all plants --- not just primarily palms. With more traffic, that should further increase ad revenue. And someday I may stop losing money. :)
     
  7. pocomo

    pocomo Active Member

    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    10
    For advertising purposes it makes sense because somebody looking for all kinds of tropicals might end up here. you kept the croton society as is and the rest of the forums stayed the same. You run This site very well Dean. You need to do what you have to do. I would hate for you to have to give it up.
    Chris
     
  8. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Thanks Chris - two things (among many others) that I have learned from doing these forum gigs is that 1) We all hate change 2) You can't please everybody.

    Change is always inconvenient and unwelcome - but in the long run, we all adapt - and without it, progress and improvement would be impossible.

    I am looking into several improvements including a sophisticated mobile add-on for tablets and phones. But such software is expensive and complicated, and without the additional traffic that a broader subject matter may help provide, I can't swing it.
     
  9. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    The Croton Society Forum generated the most traffic on Palmpedia in my opinion.

    I not only dislike the name change, I actually HATE it !!! :mad:
     
  10. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Ron, Why do you hate the TropiScape name? It should generate more traffic as Dean stated. Crotons are Tropicals not Palms (Palmpedia). Are not Crotons part of the Tropial Landscape?
     
  11. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    MooseMan - your opinion is highly valued - because you are the most prolific contributor - and I am trying to understand. And I agree, as far as the forums go, way more posts were about crotons than palms. But that is the main reason for the change. In fact, so little was about palms - that is why I thought it was stupid to continue calling the forums "Palmpedia." There was way more about Companion Plants than palms. So, I thought it best to try and make it appeal, and be more relevant, to all tropical and sub-tropical plants - and give any specific group with sufficient interest (like Palms and Crotons) a dedicated sub-forum. That, along the constant confusion I always had to address/explain as to why two different sites were called "Palmpedia," were the reasons for a name change.

    What would you have done? (Can you think of another "qualifier" than 'Landscaping With Tropicals?) But a site where 90%+ of the discussions are about crotons shouldn't be called Palmpedia. And the trick to a website is to not become too targeted and cast as wide a net as possible. Otherwise you will never appear high up on any search results.

    At one time the two sites were very cleverly integrated with specific software that allowed the discussions to exist on both platforms - wiki and forum - and appear as one site, with all logins, profiles, and technical web matters handled as one site. But that never really caught on. And then the software company that provided the integration closed and became unusable. So, I was stuck with two websites with the same name and it really messed up and confused SEO (Search Engine Optimization), Analytics, etc. - and confused new users as well.

    The Palm Encycolpedia is still "Palmpedia" as it was originally intended.
     
  12. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Moose, don't you think the new Tropiscape graphic would make a nicer Tee-Shirt? :)

    Also, it is incredibly difficult to get any type of URL with a .com address any more. I had tried Palmpedia.com and Plantpedia.com for years (in fact Plantpedia.anything was taken), and they want thousands of dollars for them. I was stoked when I discovered that Tropiscape.com became available and I jumped all over it.
     
  13. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Dean, Maybe with a little added wording the Moose may come around. picresized_1392509124_TropiScapeFinalSm1.png
     
  14. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    I'm open to suggestions. Angela and I went round and round with prospective language. In fact she came up with one that had "community" in it. The problem being that there is so little space to get the proper message across.

    Some possibilities were:
    - Creating Tropical Landscapes
    - Helping Create the (a) Tropical Look
    - Planting for the Tropical Taste
    - Learning to Garden With Tropicals
     
  15. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Dean, Tell Angela she should get back to posting here. I miss our Ti talks :(.
     
  16. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Ron, what would make it better for you? Would it be more acceptable if it had a picture of colorful crotons instead of the monstera? It would be a positive if more people came to our site and we could get more prospective members for a society. Maybe even soon to come? Or at least more people who would become members and share in our conversations and maybe add photos. Let's hear what would make it more acceptable for you so everyone can be happy about the change.:confused:
     
  17. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    I have - her excuse is that she only does iPhone and iPad now - so supposedly posting is more difficult - but I think it may just be an excuse. :)

    But that is one reason that I am thinking about checking out a mobile platform add-on.

    BTW - her new area of interest is hybrid hibiscus. She now has dozens of exotic hybrids and acquiring dozens of already hybridized seeds from exotic cultivars - and has begun creating her own crosses. Some of these flowers are truly spectacular in color - with virtually all colors of the rainbow possible.
     
  18. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    "Grow and Garden with Exotics"
    "Tropical Foliage in the Garden"
     
  19. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    I would like to see the Hibiscus also. I like to look at them even if they do not do good in my climate. I have tried and given up.
     
  20. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    665
    Dean,
    I just Googled "Codiaeum variegatum" and then "Codiaeum variegatum Forum" and went through 16 pages of links on each search term. This site was never listed. Palmtalk came up a few times. Is Codiaeum variegatum one of this site's meta tags or keywords? It seems like that would drive site traffic more than the name of the forum.

    I encourage you to do the Google search yourself.
    Marie
     
  21. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,450
    Location:
    DAVIE FL
    I love Hibiscus but so do the Iguanas that frequent this area . For them hibiscus are the holy grail of edibles :) probably like a gourmet meal of beluga caviar and Lobster Tail :)

     
  22. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Yes Marie, I see - "Croton Forum" comes up number one for us, but not so "Codiaeum variegatum Forum."

    While there has been lots of conflicting info on whether Google uses keywords or meta tags, the correct information in the last 6 months seems to indicate that they do not. Mainly because any webmaster can put any words in there that they like - and that could or could not reflect the actual content. If you are interested, here is info from Google's support site. https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/webmasters/fKbaD8e2mU0

    I checked the source code for the sites that came up on the search for "Codiaeum variegatum Forum" and they do not have "Codiaeum variegatum" in their keyword or meta tags either. But they have included "Codiaeum variegatum" in titles and descriptions, and not just within the content.

    I would recommend placing the words "Codiaeum variegatum" either in the Forum title (and replacing Croton Society), or changing the description of the forum from "All Crotons - All the Time" to something like "Growing and Discussing Codiaeum variegatum." From those changes, the way SEO (Search Engine Optimization) works with our software is that it will include those words as a reference in all posts in that forum. But IMO, "crotons" should still command the spotlight as that is what most people will be searching for.

    But I will leave that up to you guys, as when I removed the "Croton Society" name, it was not welcome. I might also add that some resolution as to the ownership and use of the "Croton Society" name should be resolved. I am sure you know that it is being used and emphasized elsewhere - http://www.crotonmania.net/
     
  23. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    FYI - This thread has more views than any other thread on Tropiscape - 36,000. And 5-10 people continue to come to it via a Google search every day. Don't ask me why exactly. But, as you can see - it has both the "scientific" name and the common name - and obviously people are interested in propagation. If someone could start a similar thread in the Croton Forum, over time I would suspect it would garner as much attention (which in turn generates even more) as this one.

    Google "propagating cordylines" and you will notice that we are #1 - above uTube videos and the International Cordyline Society topics on the subject.
    [h=3][​IMG] How to Propagate Cordylines (Ti plants)[/h]
     
  24. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    I wish more people would weigh in. I am all for increasing viewers at our site. Obviously, changing the Croton Society name was not a popular thing. I would be ok with replacing "All crotons, all the time" with "Growing and discussing codiaeum variegatum". Any other opinions? I'd also love to see a section, perhaps with photos, on propagation methods. I know many use air layers. Also, some use mist beds for cuttings. Mike, do you use misting in your little greenhouse?

    It would be great if somehow we could attract not just lurkers, but forum participants. We do get a few every year, but it seems we lose a few also. Don't know what the trick would be to get more.
     
  25. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    First, I'd like to thank Dean for managing and supporting this incredible website. I feel that whatever he may need to do to create ad income and boost viewers is okay with me. Without this site, I would not have had anywhere even close to the amount of networking, or exchanging of info and experience that I do on a consistent basis. I most likely wouldn't have even thought to post anything on Audubon House, or even my personal collection somewhere else on the web, and I don't participate in Facebook. Where would I be looking for currently updated and new threads on crotons when I am drinking my morning coffee? The WIKI for palms and crotons is an amazing and thorough resource of info and imagery. I'll admit that the Tropi Scape name sounded a bit like a landscape company, but whatever. IMO, Dean, do what you gotta do to keep this site going, and thank you again for all of your hard work!
     
  26. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Let me share some thoughts with you guys, in no particular order as to importance.

    I have extended the offer to any plant society, or area of discussion that anyone wishes to pursue, the use of the "facilities" here as they like. Several plant societies have come, then lost interest. And a few other requests have been accommodated - that too have lost interest. In the seven years the forum and the wiki have been around, I have lost money every month.

    You Croton Heads have been great resource for participation and the sharing of knowledge, so your enthusiasm is appreciated. And I have honored my promise to the Croton Society that I would allow you guys to determine your own fate and that I would assist in any way possible to help you promote Crotons. I can offer some suggestions, and I intend to continue to provide a fast, up to date, functioning and secure website for your use.

    To provide the fast display and loading of so many large photos, to keep spammers at bay and software up to date, and to assure that comprehensive backups are in place to prevent data loss is not cheap. I have never asked for money, nor do I intend to. But to help with expenses I needed to 1) attract a more varied demographic of plant people, and 2) I needed to add the new advertising. And I can report that with the name change, and some new advertising strategies, things have really turned around.

    As to attracting more participants - I have included a chart below to show that new viewership has gone from around 20% of the traffic, to almost 40% of the traffic (and the general traffic has also grown) - a very quick reaction that I hope will continue. There are some things we could do, but I can't do them alone. I will be showing you some things we could do to provide some online articles. The "Croton Corner" could publish a Blog here - everything is already in place. And something worth considering is doing what a lot of forums like this do - that is, they do not allow the viewing of photos until you are registered - the idea being that people wish to see the photos, so they register - then, since they are registered they are more inclined to comment, ask questions, and participate. What do you think? Anything you guys wish to do with the Croton Forum, I will support.

    So take a look at the following charts, and perhaps that will give you a better idea of the benefits of the name change and adding some advertising. The first full month (Feb) of advertising is on track to bring in about $75 - and the cost of this server is $100/mo. With a little more effort and fine tuning, I think I can cover expenses soon. This will be a big relief as opposed to $1000/year out of pocket for an asset that had not grown in years. So with you continued support, and if you wish to try some new things and strategies, I will be happy to assist and see what we could accomplish and create a useful tropical gardening community.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. Jeff Searle

    Jeff Searle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Here's food for thought,

    With my sale fast approaching, we here at Searle brothers Nursery always attract a large amount of croton people. I would like for everyone to maybe interact and chat with each other on some of the latest topics. Maybe then, somebody can report back here with everyone's concerns and feelings. Yes?
     
  28. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Dean, can we do something with the Croton society page on Palmpedia. It comes up in a search & may dissuade people from looking further. Maybe a direct to the WIKI & forum or an explanation of the informal 'online' society. It was last updated in 2009.
     
  29. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b

    I'll chat when my cart's full:p
     
  30. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Sure, but I would need some guidance as to what is agreed upon as desired.

    Note that the idea of a wiki is to allow anyone who is registered to manipulate any page as they wish. If someone from the Croton group would care to, they can design, arrange, and do anything they like to that page. I would be happy to help anyone get started with the fundamentals.

    If you want me to just do as I think best, I would suggest getting rid of the Croton Society name until it is started back up again - but MooseMan, our valued and main Croton Head, didn't like that idea. Or - if someone wants to write an explanation as to what is going on with the Croton Society, then I could post that to help alleviate any confusion. So unless someone has some suggestions, I'll try to come up with something that might work nicer. But if you have some ideas, please let me hear them first.

    I think it is worth realizing that just the topic I started "The Colors of Cordylines (The Ti Plant)" has over 90,000 views, and over 500 replies. This is why I suggested ditching The Croton Society as the name of the forum. A title needs to be structured to facilitate the Search Engine criteria. And as you can see, the Title of just a topic with the common name and the scientific name together works very well. I would assume that a Forum with a similar title would be very search engine friendly.

    I can place a notice at the top of the forum that could refer everyone to the Croton Society wiki page (or wherever desired) so people can get information - but for now, using the Croton Society name is rather confusing - IMO - and is it even legal???
     

Share This Page