'Disraeli vs. 'Mrs. Snyder's Disraeli'

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by Crotonologist, Dec 17, 2011.

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  1. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    Anyone know where/when "Mrs. Snyder's" was added to the name?
    I can find 'Disraeli' in books all the way back to the 1870's but cannot find anything on 'Mrs. Snyder's Disraeli'.
    It seems 'Disraeli' originated in Sydney, Australia...

    From the The Gardener's Monthly and Horticulturist, Volume 20 1878:

    Croton Disraeli
    ... For the introduction of the present pretty kind, which has been named after the celebrated English Premier, Europe is indebted to Messrs. Jas. Veitch & Sons, of Chelsea, England, who give the following description of it:
    "We are indebted to the kindness of A.H.C. Macafee, Esq., of Sidney, N.S.W., for this most distinct addition to this popular class of foliage plants. It possesses a new feature of great interest in the trilobate form of its leaves, the middle lobe being greatly elongated, with a broader expansion near the extremity; the two lateral ones comparatively short, of unequal size and length, and expanding from the mid-rib at about one-third of its length from the base. The coloring of the foliage is rich and varied. In the newer leaves the mid-rib and margin are of a light yellow with the light green blade blotched and marked with the same color; as the foliage becomes older the yellow subsides to a bright orange yellow, the marginal line becoming more defined, and the markings enlarged; in the mature leaves the margin is a bright scarlet, and the mid-rib is striped by a band of the same bright color; between two lines of a deep golden yellow, and the blotchings and markings a rich orange yellow upon a deep green ground."
    Disraeli 1878.jpg
     
  2. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    And from Gardeners' Chronicle, vol. IV, 1875:

    CROTON DISRAELI
    This is a most remarkable plant, and peculiarly distinct. We have been made acquainted within the last few years with Crotons innumerable, several of which, though not perhaps really excelling in beauty the old favourites, C. variegatus, C. pictus, and C. angustifolius, have proved to be equal to them in beauty, and remarkably diverse in character, as witness C. Weismanni, C. Johannis, C. undulatus, C. magnificus, C. spiralis, and others, whose tints crimson and gold are exceedingly rich when well laid on. Some twelve months since, or thereabout, English cultivators were startled from their propriety by hearing of Crotons with trifid, or three cleft leaves, and during the past spring some of them have made their way before the public.
    The best of these, so far as we yet know, is that represented in the accompanying figures (figs. 88, 89), for which we have to thank the Messrs. Vettch. It forms a stoutish, erect-growing bush, with leaves averaging about a foot in length, marked on a green ground colour with golden ribs and veins, broadish at the base, and throwing out two side lobes of moderate development, the middle lobe, which is contracted in the lower portion, and broader upwards, being considerably longer than the others, so that the leaves, when thus perfectly developed, become more or less distinctly halberd-shaped. Occasionally, the development is less regular, one instead of two side lobes being developed. If the foliage colours as well as that of most other Crotons, as we have reason to believe it does, gardeners generally will find the plant a welcome addition to their decorative stores, exhibitors will meet in it with a new subject which to display their cultural skill.

    Disraeli 1875.jpg test1.jpg
     
  3. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
  4. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Some really good info you have found. :cool: Thanks!
     
  5. Crotonologist

    Crotonologist Active Member

    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    southern Louisiana USDA 9a
    I made a wiki page...
    http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/DISRAELI
    In the process I ended up with an extra page (long story) that I cannot figure out how to delete, so I moved it to "X" in the wiki... anyone know how to delete it?
     
  6. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Hello again Crotonologist…what excellent information you have provided on Mrs. Snyder’s Disraeli in your thread Disraeli vs Mrs. Snyder’s Disraeli. The problem I have had is telling the difference between Royal Horseguard vs Mrs. Snyder’s Disraeli because the fotos in “The Book” look very smiliar to me, especially with my untrained eye.
     

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  7. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Your posted narratives from (The Gardener’s Monthly and Horticulturist), describe my fotos 3 and 4 exactly…if I’m wrong can someone I.D. them for me? If I’m right, I hope that other persons that have encountered the same problem can profit by the brief foto essay that I put together for my own personal reference.
     

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  8. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Fotos 1 & 2: Royal Horseguard. Fotos 3 & 4: Mrs. Snyder’s Disraeli and fotos 5 & 6: planted together in my garden for comparison purposes. Note: Foto 6…Royal Horseguard in the back-round is approximately 5.5 feet tall and Mrs. Snyder’s Disraeli in the foreground is 3 feet tall.
     

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  9. Marie Nock

    Marie Nock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    665
    Don Roberto,
    I think your Mrs. Snyder's Desraili is the blotched form, not the typical form. I think the Moose posted pictures of it on the forum last year.
     
  10. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    ...and to add to our mutual confusion, here's some pics of what I've been calling Mrs Snyders Disraeli (waaay too long of a name)
     

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  11. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    ...and a few more for a good representative sample:
    (and the seeds in the one pic will get a mesh sock over them shortly) This variety seeds quite regularly but have not gotten any to sprout and winter over.
     

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  12. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    ...and now to gum things up a bit, three pics of a Disraeli leaf shape with blotching.

    onward through the fog....
     

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  13. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Here's a couple shots of my Disraeli or Mrs. Snyder's Disraeli, if you use the whole name.
     

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  14. donroberth

    donroberth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Escazu, Costa Rica
    Many thanks to all that contributed fotos of their Disraeli's...I didn't know a "blotched" form existed !
     
  15. fawnridge

    fawnridge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Western Boca Raton
    Two more. The first one is in deep shade and will get some color from the new growth. The second one is a seedling off that plant (just behind it). All green, but great leaf shape.
     

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