Croton Encyclopedia Detailed Information

Discussion in 'THE CROTON SOCIETY' started by kwtimo, May 12, 2015.

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  1. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    Greetings everyone, I am starting this thread to pursue more detailed information on croton cultivars for all to benefit from. As collectors and enthusiasts, we all know of the importance of documenting where possible the origin of cultivars. Who were the hybridizers? Where were certain plants found and rescued or resurrected from? What connections do certain cultivars have to our mentors of the past; such as Dr. Frank Brown, Richard Krukonis, Davis, Cutler, Coppinger, Bachman and so forth.
    I was inspired to look deeper into this recently by an email I received from Cathy Berger. She had expressed her love for these beautiful plants, and some of her frustration from having many questions to which she is hoping to get answers about some of her crotons. Her main concern was about optimum light conditions. Cathy had commented that the Croton Encyclopedia had many pictures of croton cultivars, but many of the entries lacked any additional information. I answered her questions to the best of my ability, but couldn't help to agree that she had a very valid point that I too had thought of in the past that there is little to no information about optimum light conditions in the Croton Encyclopedia.
    I then contacted Anna, our WIKI Queen about this. She also agreed and suggested that I start this thread to solicit information and experience from everyone in our unofficial society. We are seeking out history, origins, optimum light conditions and so forth to make the Croton Encyclopedia as complete as it can possibly be. For example, where did Ron Keifert salvage Black Beauty from and most likely keep it from its possible demise? Were there original names for the Krukonis plants that Jeff Searle has put names on that are now known as Lover's Night, Kiss & Tell, Sweet Looking, etc. Does Marie Nock have written credit for bringing in cultivars such as Princess Eugenia, Egg Farm and MacKenzie, among others? What is the best lighting for Sybil Griffin or Arrowhead? Does everyone know that Geisha Girl had been renamed because its original name was so offensive? These are just a couple of examples of the kind of information that Anna and I are seeking out.
    Anna thought it might be helpful to approach this task by going through the cultivar list alphabetically. However, please feel free at anytime to chime in and help make the Croton Encyclopedia as complete as it can possibly be. Obviously, there will most likely be some debating on some facts or history about these plants. If you see something that you don't agree with, or feel needs correcting, please make a mention of it. So who would like to start off? The first 10 cultivars on the list are Acubaefolium, AFD 5 & 7, AFD 9, Afrika, Albicans, Alley Cat, Amibile, America, American, and Ana Lopez. What can you add to our invaluable information resource?
     
    ScotTi and kwmarko like this.
  2. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Tim -
    A good person to contact would be Bob Alonzo for the following reasons:
    .1 his personal knowledge.
    .2 his extensive horticultural library - no need to reinvent the wheel when lots of info is in older catalogs, books, etc.

    Harold Lee also has a lot of undocumented info in his head. I know that Bob and Lee rarely comment on this board so a more personal approach should work.

    I think that the quest for optimum growing conditions is a bit of a fools errand especially if one wants quantitative versus qualitative information, e.g., 500 ft-candles vs bright light.
    Good growth or color is a function of soils, light - both quantity and duration, humidity, and several other variables that I cannot think of. So the best we can probably do is suggested qualitative conditions for good color and growth. We are stuck with the growing conditions in whatever geographical area in which our plants are growing and can modify them only so much.

    Nevertheless, this a very valuable project before much of the historical info gets lost forever since none of us are getting any younger and memory rarely improves with age.
     
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  3. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Phil, it is highly unlikely to get a lot of information by calling one of these guys and going through the list of cultivars -that would take hours. They wouldn't like it at all probably. They also don't come on this site. Can't we just see if we can come up with a little information on some of these cultivars? Maybe some of the participators here know of something that isn't in the wiki. Tim and I are just two of many, I think, that are thirsty for information on crotons that isn't written down anywhere, but should be. I'm sure Jeff has lots of information for us. Maybe even photos? Jeff:D? I'm certain you have information on some of these cultivars that we would benefit from. If we go through the list, maybe something will jog your memory and we can all gain from that.
     
  4. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    It wouldn't hurt to try and "coax" some of those guys to come here and participate. In fact, if they are still into crotons, I'll bet they do come and look around.

    Maybe if they knew that their information would be preserved and appreciated if offered here, they might try adding some useful and informative comments occasionally. Then it could be transferred to the wiki for easier reference.
     
  5. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    What was the "offensive name" for Geisha Girl????
     
  6. Native son

    Native son Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    10a
    I think it was something My X wife.
     
    palmisland likes this.
  7. palmisland

    palmisland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    West Boca Raton 10b
    Ha ha, I think I have a few of those!
     
  8. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    Tim, this needs to be done bob, lee, george z. and I have been talking about this for awhile. I think george has talked to jeff about it also. Reading this, I have an idea on how to make this happen. Let me talk to those guys, and I'll see if they agree.
     
  9. kwtimo

    kwtimo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    key west, fl 10b-11
    Kurt, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you looking into this, and discussing a format with the men you mentioned. I know for myself, it is very important to have a readily available source of information to be able to reference frequently. I have a real hard time storing the information when passed verbally, and usually need to have things repeated several times to make some of it stick. This happens particularly when I am visiting a new garden, or at one of our tour/auction events due to the sheer excitement of being there, and seeing all of the other collectors, growers and enthusiasts. I tend to not absorb too much information while being on croton overload. As a younger member of the unofficial group, I would like to be able to take part in making sure that what is known about crotons is readily accessible for all enthusiasts for generations to come. Thanks again for your efforts, and everyone else involved. I thought that this thread was going to stay in the cellar and collect cobwebs.
     
    annafl likes this.
  10. Phil Stager

    Phil Stager Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Sunny St. Pete, FL
    Kurt - Great to read that you may get this project off bottom dead center.
     
  11. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member


    Kurt, I feel exactly like Tim. I really want to know everything there is about crotons and there is so little available. These guys with a lot of croton history and knowledge have a lot to share. I second the thank-you and will keep posted.

    Phil, I'm sure you have plenty to share yourself. Please don't hesitate to give us any tidbits here and there. Thanks.
     
  12. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    I spoke to bob and lee at length about this. They both would be on board for this kind of a project. I will try to come up with a format that would work. Anna, I guess I'm going to need to need to talk to you at some point.
     
  13. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Oh that's GREAT, Kurt! I'll send you my number and call me anytime or leave a message if you don't find me and I'll return the call. I'll PM you. Thanks so much!
     
  14. kurt decker

    kurt decker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    ft lauderdale
    Anna, I am lost in the website system, I can never figure out how to get back to somebody. Email me i95east@aol.com
     
  15. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Kurt, I've emailed you.
     
  16. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,861
    Location:
    Big Island of Hawaii - Kona
    Kurt, and anyone else with the same question.

    All you have to do is click on "reply" - located in the lower right of the message you wish to reply to.
     
  17. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
  18. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Nobody here, but somehow in my mailbox I found email from Peter's Crotons answering my question. Thank you, guys! I love you more and more :). I should write to you then. I already killed 4 threads here :(.
     
  19. Kingdavid

    Kingdavid Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    st lucie co
    My best lookimg Wilma is in Filtered light all day long. Have never tried direct light tho ...
     
  20. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Thank you, David. This is what I've got : "Wilma loves soft or morning light; shade her from strong afternoon sun."
    I actually bought my Wilma from them, as many other crotons ...but I lost their reccomendations for Wilma.
    Why can't we include at least their info into the wiki??
    I understand why they are not posting here: this forum is kind of Jeff's home...but as somebody said: the Peter's Crotons are the only one who care to come here, to the Central Florida West Coast to serve us, "not so crazy" croton lovers...
     
  21. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Pix, this is home to everyone who posts here. They are welcome to post! Please ask them to. I, for one, would love to hear more people's experience with crotons and they have a lot. If I see them again, which I probably will, eventually, I will ask them to join us. For now, I will enter the above suggestions about Wilma's sun preferences, in the wiki. Including David's. By the way, mine gets several hours of midday sun, and grows well, but I wish it had more color. That's why I didn't answer you, because I don't think I have a good answer! Randy and Ron have amazingly colored Wilmas. I wish they would tell us how much light they give her.
     
  22. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Thank you, Ana. Here is part of my own "wiki" with Peter's Crotons reccomendations:

    Congo (Pappey, Nancy) - full sun (sport of Mammie)
    Franklin Roosevelt (FDR) - part shade
    Fred Sander - part sun
    Mango - afternoon sun
    Mrs Robinson (Kelly) - part sun
    Multicolor (Little Miss Cobra Head or Cobra Head) - full sun
    Van Buren - shade, part sun
    Wilma - morning sunZanzibar - part sun
    Zulu - part sun

    Even this little will help us (people searching wiki for answers) a lot.

    I also got William Jennings Bryan from them, but forgot what to do with it :(
    They are here, since they can send emails. I do not know why they do not post.

    BTW, Congo is weaker then Mammie; it didn't take my ultimate full sun (no shade ever). I had to place it somewhere else.
     
  23. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    Pix, Check out Peters Croton Nursery website. They have a listing for sun and shade selections. I have purchased many Crotons and Cordyline from Mark Peters at the USF sales over the years. They do a great job going to the plant sales and getting these plants in the face of the people.
     
  24. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Thank you, Scott. How come I did not think about their website?! I will go check. I am buying at USF sales too, thanks to you :)
     
  25. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    It would be helpful when one posts a photo of their Croton on the forum if they could state the light conditions they are growing the plant in. This could be noted with the photo if it should end up in the wiki pages. I have edited the photos in the past of mine that are in the wiki stating the conditions the plant is grown in. Nothing worse than looking at the photos and the same Croton looking different in its Wiki page photos and not knowing what light conditions are needed for that look. As we know light conditions play a key role in the color of a Croton.
     
  26. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    This is a great idea! I have a new favorite - Edwin T. Meredith, that you gave me. It was looking scraggly for a long time where it was planted (in some shade), and now it is just gorgeous in full sun! I love it! I do not need anything tall where it is, and I need something green. It is spreading nicely.
    I am also impressed that the cuttings root in the water (because the branches look so weak). I will post pictures tomorrow.

    Oh, well...It is not about the color, isn't it? But this green/yellow croton just wasn't happy until I moved it into the full sun...
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  27. Kingdavid

    Kingdavid Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    st lucie co
    My congo does much better in filtered light or small amounts of direct light 034.JPG
     
    Pix likes this.
  28. ScotTi

    ScotTi Esteemed Member

    Messages:
    4,845
    General question to everyone: How do you interpret full sun? Every thing I read says 6+ hours of direct sun. That is a big range in the summer months.
     
  29. Native son

    Native son Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    869
    Location:
    10a
    Any plant that looks directly at the sun from 10:00 A M thru 4:00 P M is direct sun. If you can supply enough water some plants do really well in this (sun)nario. This group will receive full sun from midday thruout the day all day everyday. They will never become specimen plants but you can live with it if you are as limited for space and have every square inch as I have. All the above is just my opinion in 2010 I lost well over 100 plants to cold and drought not sun. image.jpg
     
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  30. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    All great suggestions, everyone. Scott, like you, I think 6 hours of direct, unfiltered sun is full sun for me. In the summer, maybe even 4-6 during intense months.
     
  31. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    My pictures of E.T. Meredith have to wait untill I find my camera:(. I wish I could call it as when I loose my phone:(. I started to keep it in in the garage because the lenses are getting foggy every time I bring it out of the house. I lost it:(...for now...

    My "full sun" in some places is 10 hours. E.T. Meredith takes it, Congo doesn't. Mammie does...and Mrs.Iceton!
     
  32. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Beautiful plants! ...Well, I do not care much about specimens...but I water and water them, so they are happy as I am :)
     
  33. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Edvin T. Meredith, all day sun (I need to check how many hours). Very happy plant:

    IMG_1422.JPG IMG_1429.JPG

    And here is a very good looking (for summer) Mrs.Iceton, also in the sun all day:

    IMG_1435.JPG IMG_1436.JPG IMG_1437.JPG

    They are getting plenty of water. As for the fertilizer, I do not have anything special yet. After palms, azaleas, lemon and bouganvillea everything else getting some osmocote.
     
    Kingdavid likes this.
  34. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Pix, your plants look so healthy and vibrant! You are definitely taking great care of them. I didn't know Mrs. Iceton could look so good in full sun. Great job.
     
  35. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Thank you so much, Ana!...but I am not an expert at this time :(. I checked, and right now they have shade from 12 to 4 because of Laurel Oak (that is going down in November)....The sun has moved half way to it's nothern arc and the conditions are different now:(
     
  36. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    Pix, shade from 12 to 4 is probably a very good thing. Why are you taking your oaks down? Don't you want some relief from sun in your garden?
     
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  37. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Ana (and David), the oaks are the Laurel Oak (the second grade trees given to the developer by the county), and they are probably more than 40 years old. They will not outlive me anyway (what a nice thought! :D). They were planted too close to the foundation, causing all kinds of damage. There were 4 of them on my 0.2 acre (one was removed before me), and their roots are everywhere. I couldn't re-do the landscape without cutting the trees. I cut a lot of roots, and the oaks look very unhappy about it. I am mostly worried about shading the house, and I am keeping one on the back yard because it protects us from the west sun. It is not looking very healthy though, and I am currently looking for a new shade tree to plant nearby; without acorns if possible. What about Shady Lady Black Olive ?? Well, the answer will be off-topic here. I am waiting for Dean to create the General Gardening forum where I can ask my questions.
     
  38. annafl

    annafl Esteemed Member

    In my opinion, there's nothing like a live oak.
     
  39. Native son

    Native son Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    869
    Location:
    10a
    Shady Lady has become one of the most hated in our area They stain every thing in sight with the bloom and leaf drop, and grow so thick without lots of work thining they break and drop branches on understudy plantings (ok I am thru venting). ;-{~< image.jpg
     
  40. Pix

    Pix Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you, guys. Live Oak then. I'll buy a big one. I like Camphor tree but it is considered invasive now.
    Is is possible to shade with palm trees? The self-cleaning palm trees :D?

    ...Is it you fishing, Lamar? Gorgeous! Looks like in the Pacific.
     

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