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California's 25% cut in water use. But only for the people. Not corporations.

Discussion in 'INTERESTING, INSIGHTFUL, PROVOCATIVE, EDUCATIONAL' started by Stan, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Farmers and corporations have no cutback orders. None. Farmers of useless crops such as rice and cotton can continue to flood fields,as they are tax subsidized crops dating back to the 1930's. Its the only reason they are grown..fat cat farmers welfare.
    And of course big business in cities will be able to use drinking city water all they want and need.
    Jerry Brown has a horrible record with big corporations,Unions..like the prison guards union that we pay billions to each year..with little accounting for overtime,etc.
    Brown really isn't very liberal. He's actually conservative with a spin on it. "For your own good" seems to be what he says all the time.
     
  2. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Sorry Stan but the ideology of "for the people, by the people" has evaporated.

    Its now For the Corporations, By the Corporations. Unfortunately, they have more rights and less exposure to liability then the average citizen. :mad:
     
  3. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    True Moose. I wish he would tell the GREATEST use of our water 2/3 or 3/4 I think it is- big Agri and Corporations,to do whats good for the people. At least once in his career.
     
  4. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Stan - I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you voted for him.
     
  5. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    He had no opposition other then the crazy eyed Republican. You would have thought his repub advisers would have told him his poster was scary. I forget his name.
     
  6. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess the choices these days are the party that caters to the corporations, and the party that caters to both the corporations and unions.
     
  7. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Today, a story of a wealthy area - Tassajara Valley that had stayed rural despite being next to ultra wealthy Blackhawk,had run out of water. These people have estates,stables. Their use of eastbaymud was cancelled. Not enough eastbaymud water to share. So,the upshot is those people are relying on well water. Get this,those pumps are running at one gallon per hour down to a eighth gallon per hour. I give my cats more water then that each day.

    Years ago,they had decided to control growth by that water contract. Like many California cities that went that way..no water now.
    And you know what? Since we had normal rainfall this year,the bay area is a lush emerald green. It rained today!..and more Monday night.
    I don't think any Arizona cities have run out of water,but here in the land of fog and Redwoods, we have!
     
  8. Jerry@TreeZoo

    Jerry@TreeZoo Well-Known Member

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    De-sal looking cheaper all the time.
     
  9. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Since they have shown they always have abundant clean energy, then that looks to be the answer.
     
  10. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    When the Pinot Noir crop fails and the Napa Valley starts losing its vines, all those wine sipping Cali folks will fund the Desalination Plants real quick.
     
  11. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Today- headlines. Santa Barbara is firing up a plant they built in 1992,and never used. After building it the cost of water they felt was too high. Now,its very worthwhile since SB is close to no water. Other cities around the state are approving de-sal plant permits.
    Some interesting facts? Last year I watched a program about how Melbourne Auss. Had built this great desalination plant for a billion dollars and it was going to supply one third of that cities water needs- for 300,000 peoples worth.
    Yesterday? I read that plant has NEVER been used nor the one in Sydney and other places down there. It turned out the cost of water would have been 8x what the cost of local sources and hard conservation are.
    Billions!
    Also- Hayward Ca has been among the top water savers in the state, 22percent. Now,if we can solve other problems around here..
     
  12. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    For the last 50 years California should have been laying dual piping every place they laid water pipe. Recycled water could have been used for all landscape needs in all new and remodeled construction, parks, etc. Many golf courses did this of their own accord, because it was cheaper and made sense.

    It always seemed like such a waste to bring water hundreds of miles, purify it to drinking water quality, and then dump it on a lawn. Or wash your body and clothes with it once and dump it in the ocean. Think of all the extra greenery it would have provided, and wildlife, and replenishing the aquifers.

    Everybody, including the Gov, is so high on recycling - but they left out the most critical resource of them all. Probably because the upfront cost seems expensive - but in reality the savings over the long run would outweigh that in spades.
     
  13. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Very valid point Dean, the grey water is simply flushed away.

    From the title of Stan's thread, it appears that the water conservation is put on the citizenry. If the citizenry make up 20% of the consumption and their Reduction of use of 25% - that is a net reduction of 5% of total consumption. Sounds like things are getting critical in California and a 5% reduction does not seem like enough. Those who are the biggest water consumers have not been asked to make any sacrifices. Looks like all those political contributions were a very good investment.
     
  14. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Moose - yes, doesn't it seem weird that the water is treated once to use it, then treated again to throw it away.

    And on another note - it kinda puts a dent in the tried and true Democrat accusations that it is the Republicans that are in bed with the large corporations, doesn't it?
     
  15. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Trying to hook up gray water plumbing is a permit nightmare I've read. Most who do it - do it surreptitiously. But,yeah,I've thought how great it would be to use a valve to take all the warm up and not soaping up shower water and have it spray out to my Tree Ferns who would take that up fast. Shaving too. A family with two bathrooms or more..that could be all the yard water you need. People shower every day.
    Also- you dont read of many cities in California proposing anything that uses every last drop.

    The newest idea? City water will have normal pressure of 2.2 gallon per minute,then the meters with cut that to 1.7 gallons for the duration after that. Sort of fill the pot fast..everything else you don't want to linger,I guess.
     
  16. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Stan - always easier to beg forgiveness then ask permission. Don't see the difference between dumping grey water on plants or into a septic tank - its still all going into the ground.
     
  17. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Moose,I sort of dodged a bullet. We are only being asked to cut back another 8% because Hayward and San Francisco citizens had cut use last year already by 24%. I can cut back 8% without mass plant death.

    The rest of the bay area is now told to cut back 24%- 36% or get stiff fines. They didn't conserve last year,some used more then even their average.

    Thank the lord we get Hetch Hechy water from Yosemite (80% full last I looked) and are contracted with SF water Supply. Best thing Hayward founders ever did!
     
  18. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Stan,
    Haven't the environmentalists on the left been trying to get rid of Hetchy Hechy for decades now and revert it back to it's natural state. They consider raping such beauty for massive cities a crime. I guess it's a good thing they don't have enough money to buy out the polisticrats.
     
  19. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    My feeling on that is...the human race only has so much time. One century or 20 centuries...sooner or later Hetch Hechy will go back to nature as the Earth has tens of millions of years to reclaim it.
    Like with Chernobyl,it will return to natural.

    Or,like in Zombie movies.
     
  20. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    DEAN,you are clairvoyant. Yesterdays big news is the bay area is trying to quickly pass laws allowing for recycled water to be used for..drinking. They said it would be 10% of our total water use. And then some less treatable water would be used for aquifer replenishing as it percolates through deep sands.
    Its interesting how much potential good water we wasted all these years..and yet no river or stream got any of that .
    Straight to sewers and then the ocean
     
  21. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Bigger news: The state (sounds commie) wants to up fines on water user homeowners from $500 to....$10,000. wow.
     
  22. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    Not "commie," but your gov and legislature will do anything it can to take more money away from you. Any excuse to tax or fine you more will not go untried. California has changed a lot since Pete Wilson was Gov and we all received a check from the Gov because they figured out ways to manage and cut spending - and actually returned money because they had taken more than they needed - quite a different way of governing than the present politburo. Now a days they could never have enough money.

    Their appetites for your money will never be satisfied.

    But you all keep voting Dem. So you are getting what you voted for.
     
  23. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    7,947
    Location:
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    And I will, better then the alternative of sleeping with the satanic party.
     
  24. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    You know there are other choices. But both parties have conspired to make you think otherwise.
     
  25. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Politicians only know politics. They don't garden,build homes,repair homes,work in a hospital. ALL they know is how to ask big business to give money to them.
    I lean left..I like Obama. But I can find lots of sell outs on my side.
     
  26. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    And- we are having cooler temps. Sunny but typical bay area 70's. A tepid summer right now would be great.
     
  27. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    7,947
    Location:
    Coral Gables, FL Zone 10b
    Without dual piping as Dean has suggested and establishment of De-Sal plants - the future for California looks bleak. A five year severe drought would force people to leave, property prices would tumble, tax revenues would dry up. Its a catastrophe waiting to happen.
     
  28. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    San Jose water has told customers to cut back by 30% off what they had cut back last year. That equals 55 gallons for a family of four per day.
    The news then showed soucal's wealthy areas with acres of green lawns.
    55 gallons? that's trying to make a profit by SJ water (fines). Its not so much water conserving. I know that.
     
  29. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    My mistake,its 55 gallons per person,I was told on another blog. But,a chance I could be right...
     
  30. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    If history repeats itself - the rains will eventually come, the drought will eventually end, and people will go back to worrying about their relationships and personal lives - and again place their future in the hands of a government who will go back to worrying about political power, campaign contributions, and feathering their own nests.
     
  31. Moose

    Moose Esteemed Member

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    Location:
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    Interesting - how do they know how many people there are per household ? Do the wealthy get to include their domestic help in the head count ? Do the illegal aliens get counted ?

    The percentage cutbacks seem to be unfair as well. Someone has 2 acres of lawn that they have been watering like crazy in the past will still be allowed a considerable amount of water. While the resident who was a good steward of this natural resource and had already cut their water consumption would be allotted less.

    Dean - the rains will eventually return but will never be enough to replenish was has been pumped out of the ground which took centuries to accumulate. Furthermore, a large portion of California's water supply comes from snow melt. I'm not going to address a global warming debate however, their has been less snow over the past few years further exasperating the water supply.
     
  32. Dypsisdean

    Dypsisdean Administrator Staff Member

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    The fact is that there is enough rainfall to satisfy the thirst of California's residents. It has been known that the Earth has been warming for a long time. But California continued to rely on the storage in the snow pack - that everyone knew was slowly dwindling, along with many or the world's glaciers. So it seemed logical to me, over the last 30 years, that much more collection and storage by other means were necessary.

    During a major storm with major flooding you have no idea how much water ends up wasted and flowing into the sea as runoff - probably enough to supply the state with a good portion of a year's worth of water. But there is not enough collection and storage capacity for the population they have allowed to live here. What bigger priority can there be than to assure adequate water supplies?

    And as to the ground water - we do not have to depend on natural percolation anymore. The water can be pumped underground, into the aquifer, and replenish the groundwater table. And this is being done, but not to the extent it needs to be. All recycled water could be pumped there, and storm drainage systems could be designed to divert water there.

    When the Bush administration said there was nothing that could be done to prevent global warming, and that time and effort should be spent preparing for what that meant, he was criticized to no end. Maybe California (and the rest of the U.S.) will realize it is time to start preparing for what that means, instead of using it as a tactic to gain political influence.

    But I'm afraid the California polisticrats will continue ignoring the situation and keep talking about controlling the climate (and the people), instead of planning for it.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  33. Stan

    Stan Well-Known Member

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    Bush said there was no such thing as global warming- but there were WMD!..in his head.
    The big problem is 80% of the drinking water goes to agriculture. Then you have whole cities- read about the wealthy enclave of Morada that uses 8x the state average with no meters. "Our lawns wont be green and we aren't used to that" one fat cat said -yesterday. The drought cuts meant nothing to him.
    Right now I want to kiss my cacti for not asking much. The jungle plans are huddled together in part shade. Not spread around. My yard is nano sized anyways.

    You see where Lake Mead is down 150'? and that doesn't take in that the silt in Lake Mead will make it a lagoon before the 22nd century.

    Whats so zany too is- The bay area has had a normal rainfall year. Its rained heavy twice in MAY!..last year this time it was 90f...this year we aren't going over 70f.

    Just doing the best I can. We will see when hot June starts...
     
  34. Jerry@TreeZoo

    Jerry@TreeZoo Well-Known Member

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    I'm offended. Too many microaggressions.
     

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