These were waist high in 2009- Dave' s Garden has my pics of them then. One seems to have suffered being closest to the driveway,otherwise pretty nice for sidewalk trees. The other pic show one large on yard watering along with a good looking young Ravnea rivularis. King palms are really exotic for the bay area. As I understand it,in Florida they aren't planted much because they burn in hot Florida sun. No problems with that here..lol.