True Satan ?

[Moose]

I got this from Mike (Bullwinkle). It looks like the real deal to me. Closest I've seen to the one in Frank Brown's book. Rob (Borgy230) saw Mike's mother plant and told me he thought it to be a true Satan.

May never get a consensus on this cultivar.

[fawnridge]

Looks like any dozen other Satan/Irene Kingsley I've grown.

[Moose]

Looks like any dozen other Satan/Irene Kingsley I've grown.

Ricky - the Satan debate will probably never be resolved. The Satan seen in Frank Brown's Crotons of the World book is Jessie Durkos plant. Unfortunately, this plant may no longer exsist.

Here is my theorey on Satan: It came from Irene Kingsley. It is not a sport or seedling. It is a version or variant that's oak shaped leaves are more pronounced on the side lobes. My Irene Kingsley's (from Marie Nock) outer lobes look more typical and are less pronounced. Adding the fact that crotons are a variable plant, there is a wide spectrum of Irene Kingsleys out there with different elogations of the outer lobes. Those which have the longest outer lobes are Satan, forming a trident looking leaf representive of Satan's pitchfork.

[fawnridge]

Moose - ALL of my Satans came from the plant in the photo in The Book. Mark Peters gave me a plant 3 years ago that he said was Irene Kingsley. It's growing next to a Satan and for all the money in the world, you can't tell them apart. I partially agree with you that Irene Kingsley is the original name. Just like Eleanor Roosevelt was called "Sloppy Painter", some nurseryman tagged an Irene Kingsley with the name "Satan" to sell more of them (growers are, to this day, notorious for making up names for Crotons.) Since I like the name Satan better than Irene Kingsley, I'm going to keep on using it.

[Crazy for Crotons]

Irene Kingsley complex?? Just kidding.

[Moose]

I can not disagree with any of the statements made in this thread. A true Satan may just be a form of Irene Kingsley, with exceptional trident shaped leaves. Perhaps if Jessie Durko shows up at the croton tour, he could give us his recollections on Satan ?